Hi, i'm new here, or maybe just been away a few years...Have 74 F-100 SuperCab; one of the first supercab models made...has a tired 360 (160,000); looking to re-do the heads and possibly the bottom end, with the idea of swapping a 390 crank and rods...my understanding is that the bore diameter, deck height, piston and head are the same (in fitment) between these engines, so that doing this swap (of crank and rods only) should produce a displacement of 390 with a comparable compression ratio (pistons at an appropriate relation to the deck @ tdc using standard head gaskets)

now, I have some general confusion about these engines that maybe some here could clarify...I understand that this series was introduced for the 1958 model year and is referred to primarily as 'FE' (ford-edsel), with some variants called "FT' (ford-truck), that it began in sizes of 330 and 361 (360?), was subsequently increased to 352 and 390, and that a 'truck' 360 was introduced in 1968...the explanation I read online said the truck engine ('FT') was built 'more ruggedly' for truck use, was better suited for trucks as it had more torque, that it was mainly used in larger trucks rather than light-duty pickups, and also that the 390 was more suited to and used in cars, with its higher hp and less need for torque...certainly they made a LOT of cars with 390s...

however, my recollection is that when you went to buy a new pickup in the early-to-mid 70s, you were looking at the F-100 with typically a 360, or an F-250 with a 390 or 460...was there only one type of 360, the FT build, or were there different versions (light/heavy), and how does the 390 differ, if at all, other than stroke length and carburation? If the 360 is a 'heavy duty' engine and the 390 isn't, why is the 360 in lighter pickups while the 390 is in heavier?

Some have advised to simply source a 390 and rebuild that, but what disadvantage would there be to swapping a 390 crank/rods into the original 360? I actually find the 360 to have decent power, but more is of course always better....

 

First, the FT series, while based on the FE is a different engine, a lot of the parts will not interchange. Don't consider the FT series when talking pick up trucks (the one exception is the U-Haul F350 with the 330).
All the 360 is, is a 390 block with a 352 crank. Both the 360 and the 390 are equally "strong".
It is quite common to convert a 360 to 390 when rebuilding and yes, it's as simple as swapping the crank and rods. If you do this, you should consider using 390 4 barrel pistons for a passenger car. For emissions reasons, the pistons in the 360 sit .100" down in the bore to reduce the compression ratio. Passenger car pistons have a .100" difference in the pin height and is a cheap way to give a good bump to the compression ratio.
Also, if you want to really wake it up, get rid of probably one of the most restrictive pair of exhaust manifolds ever designed and add headers to your "to do list".

 

thanks for the verification I've not lost my mind and the quick primer; info on Wikipedia might need to be changed...it characterized the 360 solely as an "FT" heavy-truck motor designed for durability and torque, without clarifying there were also 'standard' FE 360's...

interesting about the pistons- my info was that they're all the same 360 - 390...does this .10 difference hold across all model years? or maybe they simply stopped producing 4bbl 390s along the line...carmakers were 'detuning' engines in the early 70s primarily by reducing CR's in anticipation of emissions and unleaded gas mandates...

ok, so then adding the 390 4bbl pistons will bring tdc even with top of deck- should there be any issue with the 360 head chambers? are they the same as would be on a 390 (4bbl), and be ok on pump gas?

 

Ford typically referred to the FT engine as a 361 or a 391, in an effort to avoid the confusion you are experiencing.

 

The connecting rods on the 360 are size wise like your thumb. 390 connecting rods are like your index and your middle finger together. Put a plow on your truck with a 390 under the hood and put the pedal down, it'le run 5000rpm steady with no problem! Drill out the oil passage in the head for more oiling up top. Original FE was the 352, everything else came from there. FE's internally balanced, FT's counter weight on the flywheel for final balancing. Want some good reading?, buy this book;


it's excellent.

 

1958 was the first model year a FE was offered. There was a 332 FE along with the 352 available then.

Most all FE are internally balanced. The 410 ('66 Mercury) and the 428 (all years and models) were externally balanced.

 

Yup, good info there Roger

 

I thought that the problem was too much oil to the top? I read that people were putting a carb jet in the passage to restrict oil flow.

 

Yup. A #70 Holley jet in the passage below the rocker arm stand restricts the oil flow to the rocker arms. Keeps the oil down where it belongs instead of flooding the upper valve train. No drilling or tapping required.

 

390 cranks are starting to get difficult to find at a reasonable price, I'm seriously considering stroking mine just so I get all new part's lol.

 

referring back to Wikipedia, there was an FE 361 offered alongside the 330 and 352 for 1958, with the 361 actually the first to FE to be introduced, nearly two months before the 1958 models went on sale...it was standard in edsel ranger, pacer, villager, roundup and Bermuda...this engine was also sold on 1959 edsels in the u.s. and Canada, and 1958-59 ford and meteor models sold in Canada in place of the 352, which was not available on any Canadian ford until 1960...edsel 361 4V engines were made available to law enforcement purchasing fleet fords as the 1958 ford "police power pack"...

still, the 352 was apparently the designated 'performance' engine right from the start, "part of their interceptor line of V8 engines and the replacement for the Lincoln Y block"...in 1958 they were called '"interceptor V8" with "interceptor special V8" on 4V builds, with an "H"-coded build designated "interceptor V8 thunderbird special" (whew)...for '59 they went with "thunderbird V8" and "thunderbird special V8"...installed in mercurys, they were called "marauder"...in '60, ford created a 360 HP 352 with aluminum intake, holley 4160, header-style manifolds, solid lifters and 10.5:1 CR...

does it feel a little weird to anyone else that this so-successful engine was apparently developed at least primarily for the edsel division of ford? the very word that (to the general public) summons an image of failure? actually, the edsels weren't bad cars, but ford simply picked a rough patch economically to introduce a whole new division...that, along with controversial styling, some dubious marketing research and some electro-technological teething pains led to the infamous divisional meltdown...maybe that name, as well; a hubristic use of HF's deceased son's name

 

Doesn't bother me a bit. Compared to it's direct competion, (The "W" Block Chevrolet), it's leaps and bounds ahead of the game.

 

To clarify the piston situation. Prior to 1966, there were various regular fuel and premium fuel 390s and 352s in cars. Pickups had regular fuel 352s.

In 1966, Ford made a "big deal" in advertising a "Regular Fuel" 390 2bbl. They also had "Premium Fuel" 4bbls, and eventually a "Premium Fuel 390 2bbl in Mercury cars. The difference was the pistons. Regular fuel 9.5:1 motors got a slight dish with valve reliefs. Premium fuel 10.5 motors got flat tops with valve reliefs.

In 1968, Ford decided, probably for cost savings and to have something "new", to dump the 352. Enter the 360. Same finished block as the 390 and 410 ('66 & '67 Mercury, it's a 390 with a 428 crank and shorter pistons. Remember that shorter piston thing) As per the prior post, the 360 used the 352 crank and rods, which were longer than 390 (and all other) FE rods. Reaching into the parts bin, Ford used both the 390 Regular and Premium fuel pistons in 360s. Added up, they end up almost .120 down the hole. Ford wanted low compression due to the anticipated loads on the engine in a pickup vs. a passenger car.

Which takes us to the pickup 390. To similarly lower compression in the pickup, Ford went back to the parts bin and used the 410 piston. Again, on the shorter arm of the 390 crank, it sits about .100 down the hole

So when you buy pistons, if yours are not serviceable, be sure you get 390 car pistons, or to simplify it, 360 pickup pistons.

 

but by this explanation don't all the "pickup" pistons (360/390) tdc @ .10 below deck?

also, 360 is same as 352 in crank/rods, and gets its extra bit of displacement out of the piston?

for my build (390 crank/rods), to run on regular or mid-grade (with occasional heavy use), i'm presuming I would not want the flat-top pistons as they would yield a CR over 10--but rather, the "dished" 9.5 type?

 

I would have to add it up, but the 360 is a little lower in the hole than the 390.

The 352 is 4.00 x 3.50, the 360 is 4.05 (same as 390, 410) x 3.50.

You will have to measure things out to determine your CR. IMO for a truck that will see loads, trend towards Fords idea of lower compression and use the dished "Regular Fuel" pistons.

You will end up .015-.030 down the hole, depending on the actual measurements. If the block has been surfaced, better measure things, although you'd probably still be safe.

This is '60s car engine stuff, but stroke, bore, rod length, and other dimensions are the same for '70s pickup motors. Look at the compression height for the various engines in particular:

FE Series Engine Specification Chart