Ok, here's the situation:

Went in to my stealership yesterday for an oil change and a "Checkup". I had noticed some sluggishness and strong exhaust smell over the last few months. I wanted them to just check it out and their synthetic blend oil change is only $69.99...so what the heck...WELL...

When I pulled in and turned her off...she did not start! First time this has happened EVER. I was scared!

Fears somewhat realized. The mechanic tells me I need to replace my STC's and the dummy plugs on the truck because they are leaking/damaged. He also said I should replace my injectors because he said they are leaking slightly. I asked, "ALL EIGHT INJECTORS?" he replied YES and I started to imagine this guy is trying to clean my clock.

Stats:
2005 Ex 6.0 Limited
Headstuds, EGR delete, Tow Safe Tune by Innovative, Coolant Filter, Blue Spring Mod, FICM mod with Atlas 40, and meticulous oil changes, fuel filter care.

180,000 miles mostly around town and airport runs...(65 miles each way)

A couple of questions:

1. What should I expect to pay for the STC fittings and the dummy plugs replacement?

2. How many STC's are there? The advisor said "three" but I thought there were only two(Advisors are not mechanics, so I know they can give bad info at times).

3. Is there anything else I should be worried about while the mechanic is in there?

4. I am sure as heck not replacing all eight of my injectors if I don't have to, but if they are leaking, can they be rebuilt or re ringed or something? I have not heard of replacing all eight at one time if there isn't a major issue, but you tell me FTE!

5. What would you do if it was YOUR money and YOUR truck?

Thanks for always being there for me people!

 

I'd buy something to monitor the engine vitals with such as a scanguageII or one of the others and find out if the STC fitting really is bad...many other things can cause a no start issue but without the monitor anything you do is a guessing game and if you have the dealership work on it you're at their mercy.

 

It's pretty hard to second guess a diag like this on the net but just a few thing to ask or consider. Do you know which engine your 2005 Ex has in it? Many got a 2004 version of the 6.0 that didn't have a problematic STC fitting but rather the High Pressure Oil Pump would be suspect. If it has the early, aluminum swashplate style HPOP in it, I'd take my truck and run.

If it has the 2005 version of the engine the STC (there is only one) would be suspect BUT it's interesting that they got it fired up with a failed STC. It's usuially a show stopper. Standpipes and dummy plugs sound reasonable (there is one of each under each valve cover). The replacements are even redesigned and should last longer than the originals once installed. Injectors (all 8) being bad is possible but suspicious. Did they say HOW the diagnosed this? Fault codes, found fuel in the cylinders? Any mention of fuel pressure regulator test or blue spring update?

 

I'd be asking to see the test results to the failed injectors. Stand Pipes and dummy plugs... Couple hundred +/- a little plus labor. If your a wrench puller, it's pretty straight forward and most likely the issue.

Read up on how to do an air test, that will help pin-point the issue. If its as Rusty say's, an early model 6.0... your going deep.

 

Hard to second guess the tech there but I'm curious as to how he diagnosed it. Like Rusty said, if the STC fitting is gone, I thought it wouldn't start at all. Also, I'm just curious what the chances of STC fitting, standpipes and dummy plugs along with all eight injectors all acting up at the same time? May be totally legit but if all that happened at once, I would go buy a lottery ticket.

 

They never got it started again.


I have the blue spring mod


Never heard how they diagnosed the problem, but I WILL find out!

Anyone else pay for this to be done? What did you pay?


Update from me:

I hate it when mechanics are so pompous they don't want to talk to their customers. Why do they think they don't need to talk? I have asked twice to talk to the mechanic and the service advisor keeps bringing me "messages" from the mechanic. I am going to stop them from working until I can go over and talk to this cat.

The messages I got recently are:

1. dummy plugs to be done

2. STC's are to be done

3. Injectors are "leaking" but I don't know what that means...is it O rings that are leaking? The service advisor has told me teice that the "Don't replace O-rings on injectors" I said WHY? He said he will talk to the mechanic and I said....I will see you BOTH on Monday.

 

I see you have the SCT Innov Tunes do you run a SCT tuner> perhaps you could monitor the STC like mentioned with a scan gauge? Just a thought I don't have SCT tuner and not sure what they can monitor or not.

 

I will be able to ...but only after the truck is running again...it is torn down right now.

 

There is an air test that can be done to show where the leak is. Injector can be re-o-ringed as well, not a hard job and will fix a leak if the upper o-ring... you can see that leak with the valve cover off.

 

The fact that it's a no-start would support the diag of STC failure, if it lost an o-ring on the dummy plugs or (less likely) standpipes it would likely start after cooling down. I like the idea of replacing it with the one-piece branch tube connector anyway. Those thing often fail at the worst times. Replacing that involves pulling the turbo and the HPOP cover in the valley (center top) at the rear of the engine. SP's and DP's and injectors are under the valve covers. The driver side isn't bad but there isn't much room to work on the passenger side but it's not a big deal for a Tech with the proper tools.

My only question at this point would be all 8 injectors being bad on a truck with 180k mi that came in for an oil change. I assume it had no running issues prior to that? Maybe as I said before the cylinders were full of fuel, the injectors are all discolored, or they fail a coil test, but all 8 feels like a shotgun repair with expensive parts.

You are on the right track to talk to the Tech and maybe find that you agree, but it's not too much to expect good info.

I don't mean to sound snotty but they will likely charge book time on each repair separately so replacing the injectors at the same time as SP and DP will save them time but not necessarily save you money. Fixing the HP oil leaks and testing the injectors after its running would be how I would do it at home, even though some if it would have to come back apart if injectors were found to be bad.

Good luck with it.

P.s. This would be a good time to put an updated fuel pressure regulator spring in it if you don't have one yet. It often raises fuel pressure a little (if your old one is weak) and makes life easier on the injectors.

 

OK, update:

Truck was tested by Master Diesel Mechanic(FWIW) and the flow test showed the stc fitting was leaking like a son of a gun. The testing showed the o rings at the top of the injectors were also leaking slightly(not like a son of a gun).

The stc's were replaced. standpipes were replaced. The dummy plugs were replaced. Nothing else was replaced as far as I know.

More to come as I look into injector rebuild/re-o-ring

Thanks for your guidance Rusty...I have the blue spring update!

Thanks!

 

If they haven't been done, the STC fitting and Dummy plugs are always a smart thing to do.

With the injectors "leaking", he may be somewhat correct as the top seals do leak over time. However, the reason why he said they don't reseal that part of the injector is because Ford's kit DOES NOT include the op o-ring, where International's kit does.

I'm reasonably seasoned on the 6.0, so if it were me and I had the time, I would've done the work myself including resealing the injectors. It's actually better and faster than doing it on a 7.3.

 

Is it a ScanGaugeII ? The is a more basic ScanGauge that is just for trips/mileage stuff.

 

Now I get it...thanks Toreador! I will be planning a reseal party for those injectors later on this year. I now know what to expect...it's so hard when the truck is sitting in the mechanics' bay to make fast decisions when the price is $$$!

I will order the kit and wait for the opportune time to strike!

 

I have the insight gauge and it monitors most if not all the stuff the scangauge does...unless I'm mistaken?