Cracked frame
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Senior User
Joined: Feb 2015
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Cracked frame
Hey all,
I will try and keep this as short as possible. Basiclly I bought a 95 F150 4x4 and replaced the whole front end and added a 4" lift as well. all was fine till i had to take it to get an alignment, went to midas ( first mistake ) and waited 3 hours for them to say they cant do anything because my tires are to wide ( 32x11.5x15), so i drive it home even worse then it was but they told me to take it to a special 4x4 shop 30 minutes out. no problem so i have it towed monday and they said they could do it Wednesday. so i leave it there and get a call at 9:30 this morning telling me my frame is completely cracked all the way through and theres nothing they can do. being very pissed off i have it towed back home since its my only truck semi working. 3 hours later it gets here and i find on the right side ( passenger side ) about an inch or two forward of the coil spring bracket its crack top to bottom all the way through which was NOT there before the first shop. I know most people will say cut your losses and junk it. not an option for me. ive spent my whole savings and months working on redoing this truck. trashing its not an option. now the crack looks like its after everything important, how hard would it be to maybe epoxy the crack and weld 1/8 steel plate on the front and back? would that even work and if mot whats my best option besides trashing it? I will upload pictures as soon as i get home from work
I will try and keep this as short as possible. Basiclly I bought a 95 F150 4x4 and replaced the whole front end and added a 4" lift as well. all was fine till i had to take it to get an alignment, went to midas ( first mistake ) and waited 3 hours for them to say they cant do anything because my tires are to wide ( 32x11.5x15), so i drive it home even worse then it was but they told me to take it to a special 4x4 shop 30 minutes out. no problem so i have it towed monday and they said they could do it Wednesday. so i leave it there and get a call at 9:30 this morning telling me my frame is completely cracked all the way through and theres nothing they can do. being very pissed off i have it towed back home since its my only truck semi working. 3 hours later it gets here and i find on the right side ( passenger side ) about an inch or two forward of the coil spring bracket its crack top to bottom all the way through which was NOT there before the first shop. I know most people will say cut your losses and junk it. not an option for me. ive spent my whole savings and months working on redoing this truck. trashing its not an option. now the crack looks like its after everything important, how hard would it be to maybe epoxy the crack and weld 1/8 steel plate on the front and back? would that even work and if mot whats my best option besides trashing it? I will upload pictures as soon as i get home from work
i ain't rite
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 65,565
Likes: 5,601
From: Marlboro Mental Hospital.
if it is in front of the spring perch and only holding up the rad support and bumper, i would position it where it is supposed to be, weld it, and then weld a plate over it.
then find a real front end shop.
someone that only specializes in front end work.
then find a real front end shop.
someone that only specializes in front end work.
Elder User
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 785
Likes: 2
I recently posted in another thread on a similar subject, and people seemed to find my response helpful. Hopefully you do too. I'll just copy/paste it here.
"Typically I avoid responding to questions such as these, and other welding-related posts, to avoid the drama that tends to ensue when "experts" butt heads.
That doesn't seem to be happening here, so I'd like to provide my opinion. I am an x-ray certified pipe welder by profession, and have a considerable amount of structural and fabrication design/construction/repair experience as well.
In all the pertinent work that I've done, the standard procedure is as follows:
1. "Chase" the crack with either a cutoff wheel (typically a .045" wheel on a peanut grinder) or a carbide burr on an end grinder. That is to say, bevel both sides of the crack.
2. Grind *beyond* the visible ends of the crack, to ensure that it doesn't continue beyond what is currently visible. A half inch or so on each end should be sufficient.
3. Drill a hole at each end of the crack, to help prevent it from expanding.
4. Begin to weld it. Now, here is where most people do it in a fashion that I was taught, and have subsequently seen in the field, is often inadequate. They will try and just run a bead down the crack and call it good. Not so. Start *in front of* one of the holes you drilled, NOT on it. The holes need to be welded LAST. Weld approximately two inches of the crack, and stop. Take a hammer and peen the **** out of the weld and surrounding area. Weld another two inches, and repeat. So on and so forth, until the crack is welded completely. This method of welding, along with a preheat/postheat procedure, is critical when welding cast iron or any other high-carbon steel. However, I've found it works well on low- and medium-carbon steels as well.
5. At this time, you can weld up the holes you drilled. The reason behind installing the holes and welding them last is simple; to prevent it from cracking further. But, most people get confused here too. It's not to keep it from cracking down the road, it's to prevent the existing crack from growing as you weld. As we all know, metal expands when heated. As a result, the ends of the crack become pivot points for both "pieces" of metal as you are welding. If you just start welding away, the two sides of the crack expand and all of that tension is focused squarely on the far end of the crack. In drilling holes, you effectively create a hinge that distributes the stresses associated with welding around a greater area, thus reducing the chances of furthering the crack.
Here is where some people tend to say "but I weld cracks like that all the time and never have a problem. Yeah, well, go ahead and run an ultrasound test on the surrounding metal next time. You'd be surprised how many cracks tend to form at the end of what was the original crack.
Installing fish plates in addition to your weld repair is optional, but depending on what type of use (or abuse) the truck will see, it may be an advisable step.
Hope this helps. And no, it's not the only way to do it. In welding, there is rarely only one way. But it's the most effective method I've found to date."
I would highly advise against using any type of epoxy on your frame.
If you have any questions, please feel free to PM me.
"Typically I avoid responding to questions such as these, and other welding-related posts, to avoid the drama that tends to ensue when "experts" butt heads.
That doesn't seem to be happening here, so I'd like to provide my opinion. I am an x-ray certified pipe welder by profession, and have a considerable amount of structural and fabrication design/construction/repair experience as well.
In all the pertinent work that I've done, the standard procedure is as follows:
1. "Chase" the crack with either a cutoff wheel (typically a .045" wheel on a peanut grinder) or a carbide burr on an end grinder. That is to say, bevel both sides of the crack.
2. Grind *beyond* the visible ends of the crack, to ensure that it doesn't continue beyond what is currently visible. A half inch or so on each end should be sufficient.
3. Drill a hole at each end of the crack, to help prevent it from expanding.
4. Begin to weld it. Now, here is where most people do it in a fashion that I was taught, and have subsequently seen in the field, is often inadequate. They will try and just run a bead down the crack and call it good. Not so. Start *in front of* one of the holes you drilled, NOT on it. The holes need to be welded LAST. Weld approximately two inches of the crack, and stop. Take a hammer and peen the **** out of the weld and surrounding area. Weld another two inches, and repeat. So on and so forth, until the crack is welded completely. This method of welding, along with a preheat/postheat procedure, is critical when welding cast iron or any other high-carbon steel. However, I've found it works well on low- and medium-carbon steels as well.
5. At this time, you can weld up the holes you drilled. The reason behind installing the holes and welding them last is simple; to prevent it from cracking further. But, most people get confused here too. It's not to keep it from cracking down the road, it's to prevent the existing crack from growing as you weld. As we all know, metal expands when heated. As a result, the ends of the crack become pivot points for both "pieces" of metal as you are welding. If you just start welding away, the two sides of the crack expand and all of that tension is focused squarely on the far end of the crack. In drilling holes, you effectively create a hinge that distributes the stresses associated with welding around a greater area, thus reducing the chances of furthering the crack.
Here is where some people tend to say "but I weld cracks like that all the time and never have a problem. Yeah, well, go ahead and run an ultrasound test on the surrounding metal next time. You'd be surprised how many cracks tend to form at the end of what was the original crack.
Installing fish plates in addition to your weld repair is optional, but depending on what type of use (or abuse) the truck will see, it may be an advisable step.
Hope this helps. And no, it's not the only way to do it. In welding, there is rarely only one way. But it's the most effective method I've found to date."
I would highly advise against using any type of epoxy on your frame.
If you have any questions, please feel free to PM me.
Elder User
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 785
Likes: 2
No problem. Feel free to PM me with questions. I'm no mechanical expert so maybe welding is my way to contribute to the forum.
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Postmaster
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From: SW Florida
I recently posted in another thread on a similar subject, and people seemed to find my response helpful. Hopefully you do too. I'll just copy/paste it here.
"Typically I avoid responding to questions such as these, and other welding-related posts, to avoid the drama that tends to ensue when "experts" butt heads.
That doesn't seem to be happening here, so I'd like to provide my opinion. I am an x-ray certified pipe welder by profession, and have a considerable amount of structural and fabrication design/construction/repair experience as well.
In all the pertinent work that I've done, the standard procedure is as follows:
1. "Chase" the crack with either a cutoff wheel (typically a .045" wheel on a peanut grinder) or a carbide burr on an end grinder. That is to say, bevel both sides of the crack.
2. Grind *beyond* the visible ends of the crack, to ensure that it doesn't continue beyond what is currently visible. A half inch or so on each end should be sufficient.
3. Drill a hole at each end of the crack, to help prevent it from expanding.
4. Begin to weld it. Now, here is where most people do it in a fashion that I was taught, and have subsequently seen in the field, is often inadequate. They will try and just run a bead down the crack and call it good. Not so. Start *in front of* one of the holes you drilled, NOT on it. The holes need to be welded LAST. Weld approximately two inches of the crack, and stop. Take a hammer and peen the **** out of the weld and surrounding area. Weld another two inches, and repeat. So on and so forth, until the crack is welded completely. This method of welding, along with a preheat/postheat procedure, is critical when welding cast iron or any other high-carbon steel. However, I've found it works well on low- and medium-carbon steels as well.
5. At this time, you can weld up the holes you drilled. The reason behind installing the holes and welding them last is simple; to prevent it from cracking further. But, most people get confused here too. It's not to keep it from cracking down the road, it's to prevent the existing crack from growing as you weld. As we all know, metal expands when heated. As a result, the ends of the crack become pivot points for both "pieces" of metal as you are welding. If you just start welding away, the two sides of the crack expand and all of that tension is focused squarely on the far end of the crack. In drilling holes, you effectively create a hinge that distributes the stresses associated with welding around a greater area, thus reducing the chances of furthering the crack.
Here is where some people tend to say "but I weld cracks like that all the time and never have a problem. Yeah, well, go ahead and run an ultrasound test on the surrounding metal next time. You'd be surprised how many cracks tend to form at the end of what was the original crack.
Installing fish plates in addition to your weld repair is optional, but depending on what type of use (or abuse) the truck will see, it may be an advisable step.
Hope this helps. And no, it's not the only way to do it. In welding, there is rarely only one way. But it's the most effective method I've found to date."
I would highly advise against using any type of epoxy on your frame.
If you have any questions, please feel free to PM me.
"Typically I avoid responding to questions such as these, and other welding-related posts, to avoid the drama that tends to ensue when "experts" butt heads.
That doesn't seem to be happening here, so I'd like to provide my opinion. I am an x-ray certified pipe welder by profession, and have a considerable amount of structural and fabrication design/construction/repair experience as well.
In all the pertinent work that I've done, the standard procedure is as follows:
1. "Chase" the crack with either a cutoff wheel (typically a .045" wheel on a peanut grinder) or a carbide burr on an end grinder. That is to say, bevel both sides of the crack.
2. Grind *beyond* the visible ends of the crack, to ensure that it doesn't continue beyond what is currently visible. A half inch or so on each end should be sufficient.
3. Drill a hole at each end of the crack, to help prevent it from expanding.
4. Begin to weld it. Now, here is where most people do it in a fashion that I was taught, and have subsequently seen in the field, is often inadequate. They will try and just run a bead down the crack and call it good. Not so. Start *in front of* one of the holes you drilled, NOT on it. The holes need to be welded LAST. Weld approximately two inches of the crack, and stop. Take a hammer and peen the **** out of the weld and surrounding area. Weld another two inches, and repeat. So on and so forth, until the crack is welded completely. This method of welding, along with a preheat/postheat procedure, is critical when welding cast iron or any other high-carbon steel. However, I've found it works well on low- and medium-carbon steels as well.
5. At this time, you can weld up the holes you drilled. The reason behind installing the holes and welding them last is simple; to prevent it from cracking further. But, most people get confused here too. It's not to keep it from cracking down the road, it's to prevent the existing crack from growing as you weld. As we all know, metal expands when heated. As a result, the ends of the crack become pivot points for both "pieces" of metal as you are welding. If you just start welding away, the two sides of the crack expand and all of that tension is focused squarely on the far end of the crack. In drilling holes, you effectively create a hinge that distributes the stresses associated with welding around a greater area, thus reducing the chances of furthering the crack.
Here is where some people tend to say "but I weld cracks like that all the time and never have a problem. Yeah, well, go ahead and run an ultrasound test on the surrounding metal next time. You'd be surprised how many cracks tend to form at the end of what was the original crack.
Installing fish plates in addition to your weld repair is optional, but depending on what type of use (or abuse) the truck will see, it may be an advisable step.
Hope this helps. And no, it's not the only way to do it. In welding, there is rarely only one way. But it's the most effective method I've found to date."
I would highly advise against using any type of epoxy on your frame.
If you have any questions, please feel free to PM me.
Merry Christmas!
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Thats amazing advice and really helps, My phone is being stupid and having issues uploading pics but ill get the OP updated soon with them. The crack I have no idea why or how it happened. It wasnt there when I installed the new front end parts / lift but as soon as i get it back from the shops its cracked, Im guessing the crap shop i first went to that charged under the table are the ones that did it, I've never welded so Im going out this weekend to pick one up and get some practice in before i attempt to fix this crack, With those instructions though I think it should be simple enough to do. Thanks alot
Cargo Master
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,171
Likes: 20
From: Denton, TX
Austin, I admire the attitude!
I've been around welding most of my life but had very littel 'hands on' experience. I picked up a nice wire feed welder sized for most of my needs but needed some tutelage and practice.
I found a local guy on Craigslist advertising his fab skills. The first one declined but the second person let me hire him for an hour's shop rate and let me run beads as he watched and coached me on his equipment. It was some of the best money and time spent.
I've been around welding most of my life but had very littel 'hands on' experience. I picked up a nice wire feed welder sized for most of my needs but needed some tutelage and practice.
I found a local guy on Craigslist advertising his fab skills. The first one declined but the second person let me hire him for an hour's shop rate and let me run beads as he watched and coached me on his equipment. It was some of the best money and time spent.
Thread Starter
|
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Austin, I admire the attitude!
I've been around welding most of my life but had very littel 'hands on' experience. I picked up a nice wire feed welder sized for most of my needs but needed some tutelage and practice.
I found a local guy on Craigslist advertising his fab skills. The first one declined but the second person let me hire him for an hour's shop rate and let me run beads as he watched and coached me on his equipment. It was some of the best money and time spent.
I've been around welding most of my life but had very littel 'hands on' experience. I picked up a nice wire feed welder sized for most of my needs but needed some tutelage and practice.
I found a local guy on Craigslist advertising his fab skills. The first one declined but the second person let me hire him for an hour's shop rate and let me run beads as he watched and coached me on his equipment. It was some of the best money and time spent.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 913
Likes: 7
Thats an amazing idea, I may check into that and see if i cant get anyone to do the same with me. Harbor freight has a 90 amp flux core mig wire fed welder for 100 bucks ima pick up probably monday and start learning with that. Its able to weld 3/16" no problem but ive been doing alot of research and see people doing all the way to 1/2 with it. Its nothing amazing but it should do the job decently for 1/8" plate for a frame brace and a crack i think