351m 400 C6 fly wheel
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2014
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351m 400 C6 fly wheel
I have searched all over the net and that includes this site, ive found that the fly wheel can be used on either engine and there the same and others saying there not the same. I have a fly wheel off both,and there is a difference. Im rebuilding the 400 and if i use the 400 fly wheel theres no way the starter that came off the 351m taken out will engage but yet im finding the starter is suppose to be the same on both. Well, which is it? LOL.
Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2011
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From: Taxachusetts
You have a C6 - automatics have flexplates, not fly wheels. The teeth are different I believe - 157 for an auto and 164 for a stick. Starters between manual and automatics are not interchangeable with the auto being longer. Reason - the teeth are set back (more toward the trans) than the manual (flywheel). If the starter you have is from a 351M automatic, it should fit the 400 automatic.
Clear as the moon on a sunny day, right?
Clear as the moon on a sunny day, right?
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2014
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You have a C6 - automatics have flexplates, not fly wheels. The teeth are different I believe - 157 for an auto and 164 for a stick. Starters between manual and automatics are not interchangeable with the auto being longer. Reason - the teeth are set back (more toward the trans) than the manual (flywheel). If the starter you have is from a 351M automatic, it should fit the 400 automatic.
Clear as the moon on a sunny day, right?
Clear as the moon on a sunny day, right?
Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2011
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From: Taxachusetts
Yeupp! I think the auto starter has about a 3/8" longer nose than the stick....and I believe the diameter between the two (where they mount) is a bit different, too.
You have your garage/house built on an Indian burial ground? Shoot - problems with finding good (un-cracked) heads, starter problems.....What's next?
Hotshot
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: The Shenandoah Valley
From all I can find, and as far as I've ever known .... a 351 with C-6 and a 400 with C-6 both use the same starter & 164 tooth flexplate. The 351M and 400 do share the same engine blocks.
However ..... both the 351W and 302 also have a 164 tooth flexplate but it is different from a 351M / 400 flexplate. Perhaps someone has used a 351W flexplate on it before you came along?
However ..... both the 351W and 302 also have a 164 tooth flexplate but it is different from a 351M / 400 flexplate. Perhaps someone has used a 351W flexplate on it before you came along?
Tuned
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 387
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I know the 351M and 400 manual transmission trucks have 180 tooth ring gears. I thought the flex plates were the same. I will do some digging in my parts books for a better answer.
I have heard the automatic starter vs. manual transmission starters were different before but I don't believe it. I have a 351M automatic starter on my 400 manual truck. The starter nose cone both have the same casting number so it is the same starter.
I have heard the automatic starter vs. manual transmission starters were different before but I don't believe it. I have a 351M automatic starter on my 400 manual truck. The starter nose cone both have the same casting number so it is the same starter.
Tuned
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 387
Likes: 25
I know the 351M and 400 manual transmission trucks have 180 tooth ring gears. I thought the flex plates were the same. I will do some digging in my parts books for a better answer.
I have heard the automatic starter vs. manual transmission starters were different before but I don't believe it. I have a 351M automatic starter on my 400 manual truck. The starter nose cone both have the same casting number so it is the same starter.
I have heard the automatic starter vs. manual transmission starters were different before but I don't believe it. I have a 351M automatic starter on my 400 manual truck. The starter nose cone both have the same casting number so it is the same starter.
From the Ford parts manuals: The same flexplate was used on the 351M & 400 for cars and trucks. No mention of the number of teeth on the flexplate (but the parts manual does say 180 for a manual transmission ring gear/flywheel). The same starter was used on automatic and manual transmissions for the 351M & 400. Other Ford engines usually indicate the starters are different.
From internet searches of a couple of aftermarket parts suppliers: The flexplate has 164 teeth.
I would hazard a guess that since the starter bolts to the bell housing/transmission case that the starter for an automatic transmission is located closer to the crankshaft centre, allowing it to engage with the smaller diameter of the flexplate (as opposed to the location for a manual transmission's larger diameter flywheel).
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2014
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From all I can find, and as far as I've ever known .... a 351 with C-6 and a 400 with C-6 both use the same starter & 164 tooth flexplate. The 351M and 400 do share the same engine blocks.
However ..... both the 351W and 302 also have a 164 tooth flexplate but it is different from a 351M / 400 flexplate. Perhaps someone has used a 351W flexplate on it before you came along?
However ..... both the 351W and 302 also have a 164 tooth flexplate but it is different from a 351M / 400 flexplate. Perhaps someone has used a 351W flexplate on it before you came along?
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Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2011
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From: Taxachusetts
^^^^Good call gentlemen - 164 tooth all around for an auto, 300 straight 6 up to F350. (went down and counted the teeth on a '79 400 auto). The only numbers I could find on it are: 1169931. I know that don't mean squat, but there it is.
My bad.
My bad.
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Laughing Gas
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Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2011
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From: Taxachusetts
Well, here be the numbers.... over all diameter - teeth to teeth is 14.25". As far as starters being interchangeable....(auto to manual) didn't work for me -- maybe I got some computer goober behind the counter who couldn't understand Engrish. Tried 3 times before I got the right one. Lousy azz parts stores or maybe I was off my meds that day. Ha ha.
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2014
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Gary Lewis figured it out in the 335 series sec. One of my plates are pre 81 and the other is a post 81. But neither look like yours,mine are solid, THANKS to all who helped.
Flywheels & Starters - Gary's Garagemahal
Flywheels & Starters - Gary's Garagemahal
Postmaster
Joined: Mar 2011
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From: Taxachusetts
I've seen Gary's web site in the other section....He's got some good stuff started there.
But, I think Tbear853 (above, #5) got things rolling in the right direction.......No offence to Gary - I think we should yell at the Ford boys who decided (I think) in middle '80s to make every thing monolithic .....to save on the dollar, thus confusing the snot out us that have pre-'80s trucks.
I'm glad you're moving forward with this - I hope it won't be a fiasco like before with finding some good heads. ..Hahaha
But, I think Tbear853 (above, #5) got things rolling in the right direction.......No offence to Gary - I think we should yell at the Ford boys who decided (I think) in middle '80s to make every thing monolithic .....to save on the dollar, thus confusing the snot out us that have pre-'80s trucks.
I'm glad you're moving forward with this - I hope it won't be a fiasco like before with finding some good heads. ..Hahaha
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