Gearing question
Thread Starter
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Elder User
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 613
Likes: 0
From: Boston, KY
Gearing question
Hey guys, it's been a while since I've been on here. Just got finished rebuilding the top end of my 460. I had some '86 heads rebuilt and installed with new stock exhaust manifolds. I'm running an edelbrock RPM performer intake and 650 carb. Straight pipes all the way back.
My original issue was that I was running EFI heads with a carb intake and the performance of the truck was terrible. With the new heads, the performance is not really all that much better. The truck runs smoothly and sounds good, but I am wondering if my gearing is too low. If I use all 5 gears, I wind the engine up, reach about 2 mph, shift to 2nd gear, wind the engine up, reach about 10 mph...etc. It's like I'm driving an 18 wheeler. I almost always skip 1st gear, sometimes I don't even bother with second.
With a non-stock ZF-5 wide ratio and 4.11 gears, am I running too low? Performance feels the same with an empty bed or with 1000 lbs of firewood. I'm wondering if slightly taller gears would help make the truck feel a little faster (I know, it sounds backwards but I'm spending all my time shifting)
I'm curious to hear your opinions. A 460 should be fun to drive, right? I want to feel it when I stomp on the gas.
My original issue was that I was running EFI heads with a carb intake and the performance of the truck was terrible. With the new heads, the performance is not really all that much better. The truck runs smoothly and sounds good, but I am wondering if my gearing is too low. If I use all 5 gears, I wind the engine up, reach about 2 mph, shift to 2nd gear, wind the engine up, reach about 10 mph...etc. It's like I'm driving an 18 wheeler. I almost always skip 1st gear, sometimes I don't even bother with second.
With a non-stock ZF-5 wide ratio and 4.11 gears, am I running too low? Performance feels the same with an empty bed or with 1000 lbs of firewood. I'm wondering if slightly taller gears would help make the truck feel a little faster (I know, it sounds backwards but I'm spending all my time shifting)
I'm curious to hear your opinions. A 460 should be fun to drive, right? I want to feel it when I stomp on the gas.
Fleet Owner
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 21,437
Likes: 76
From: Gilbert, PA
Hey guys, it's been a while since I've been on here. Just got finished rebuilding the top end of my 460. I had some '86 heads rebuilt and installed with new stock exhaust manifolds. I'm running an edelbrock RPM performer intake and 650 carb. Straight pipes all the way back.
My original issue was that I was running EFI heads with a carb intake and the performance of the truck was terrible. With the new heads, the performance is not really all that much better. The truck runs smoothly and sounds good, but I am wondering if my gearing is too low. If I use all 5 gears, I wind the engine up, reach about 2 mph, shift to 2nd gear, wind the engine up, reach about 10 mph...etc. It's like I'm driving an 18 wheeler. I almost always skip 1st gear, sometimes I don't even bother with second.
With a non-stock ZF-5 wide ratio and 4.11 gears, am I running too low? Performance feels the same with an empty bed or with 1000 lbs of firewood. I'm wondering if slightly taller gears would help make the truck feel a little faster (I know, it sounds backwards but I'm spending all my time shifting)
I'm curious to hear your opinions. A 460 should be fun to drive, right? I want to feel it when I stomp on the gas.
My original issue was that I was running EFI heads with a carb intake and the performance of the truck was terrible. With the new heads, the performance is not really all that much better. The truck runs smoothly and sounds good, but I am wondering if my gearing is too low. If I use all 5 gears, I wind the engine up, reach about 2 mph, shift to 2nd gear, wind the engine up, reach about 10 mph...etc. It's like I'm driving an 18 wheeler. I almost always skip 1st gear, sometimes I don't even bother with second.
With a non-stock ZF-5 wide ratio and 4.11 gears, am I running too low? Performance feels the same with an empty bed or with 1000 lbs of firewood. I'm wondering if slightly taller gears would help make the truck feel a little faster (I know, it sounds backwards but I'm spending all my time shifting)
I'm curious to hear your opinions. A 460 should be fun to drive, right? I want to feel it when I stomp on the gas.
1st gear in the Zf5 is 5.72(which is pretty Low) But unless you do a lot of driving or the most of it is at highway speeds, stick with eh 4.10s
To regear axles you are looking at about 1500+ to do both axles
Thread Starter
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Elder User
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 613
Likes: 0
From: Boston, KY
Maybe I just need to accept the fact that a 4x4 f250 will never feel like a muscle truck.....
I got a little depressed when I took my brother's 1972 GMC 1500 with a measly 350 for a spin and had trouble keeping the tires planted because it had so much power. A measly 350 I tell ya!
Any other suggestions to help be get that "seat of my pants" sensation? (Aside from more engine mods - I'm tired of those at the moment) Maybe the mud tires are partly to blame.
I told my wife I need another truck - this time built for raw speed. She ignored me.
I got a little depressed when I took my brother's 1972 GMC 1500 with a measly 350 for a spin and had trouble keeping the tires planted because it had so much power. A measly 350 I tell ya!
Any other suggestions to help be get that "seat of my pants" sensation? (Aside from more engine mods - I'm tired of those at the moment) Maybe the mud tires are partly to blame.
I told my wife I need another truck - this time built for raw speed. She ignored me.
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,006
Likes: 72
From: Roseville, MN
My '97 has a stock 460, E4OD and 4.10 gears (with factory limited slip) and I can light up one rear tire (yes one, with factory limited slip) starting on dry pavement with a slide-in camper in the bed. I don't know that I'd call it a muscle truck, but it sounds a lot more lively than what you're talking about.
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 884
Likes: 7
He is truly over geared, the wide ratio zf is perfect for pulling, not for racing. Put 4.10s behind it and yes 1st is worthless, 2nd is still too low for hot rodding.
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Thread Starter
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Elder User
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 613
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From: Boston, KY
NothingSpecial, the way you describe your truck is what I am hoping to achieve - simply not there right now. Maybe I should stick to pulling stumps and dragging mobile homes sideways.
Junior User
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Is it OK to ask a question on someone else's thread, but still about gears?
My Truck is has a warmed up 460 and e4od with shift enhance kit.
The last guy that had it did the work so I don't know the specs but I do know it has a cam in it at least.
On 315-70-17 (35x12.50-17) with factory 4.10s it feels gutless when towing a jeep on a trailer. Would 4.56 be better, or even 4.88? Or should I just go down do a smaller and narrower tire like a 34x11.50 or a 33x10.50? I just trimmed the front bumper to clear so it wouldn't look to goofy going down in tire size.
My Truck is has a warmed up 460 and e4od with shift enhance kit.
The last guy that had it did the work so I don't know the specs but I do know it has a cam in it at least.
On 315-70-17 (35x12.50-17) with factory 4.10s it feels gutless when towing a jeep on a trailer. Would 4.56 be better, or even 4.88? Or should I just go down do a smaller and narrower tire like a 34x11.50 or a 33x10.50? I just trimmed the front bumper to clear so it wouldn't look to goofy going down in tire size.
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,006
Likes: 72
From: Roseville, MN
Sometimes it's better to start your own thread, sometimes it's fine to tack onto another. I don't know that there are any hard and fast rules on it.
Going to 35" tires with 4.10 gears is like 3.71 gears with the stock 31.7" tires. I don't think my truck would feel gutless with that small of a change. So one question would be why is your "warmed up" 460 worse than my stock one? Or maybe, is your definition of gutless a lot different than mine?
If you do want to gear it, 4.56 gears would put you back pretty close to stock (equivalent of 4.13 gears with stock tires). 4.88s would be the equivalent of 4.42 gears. Keeping in mind that is costs about $1000 to regear each axle, it ain't a cheap fix (especially if you have a 4WD).
Changing tire size would be cheaper (and would help your mileage and braking as well), but going to a 34" tire would be almost unnoticeable, and I doubt a 33" tire would bring you from "gutless" to something you'd love.
So sorry, no magic answer here, but maybe some info to help you find your answer.
Going to 35" tires with 4.10 gears is like 3.71 gears with the stock 31.7" tires. I don't think my truck would feel gutless with that small of a change. So one question would be why is your "warmed up" 460 worse than my stock one? Or maybe, is your definition of gutless a lot different than mine?
If you do want to gear it, 4.56 gears would put you back pretty close to stock (equivalent of 4.13 gears with stock tires). 4.88s would be the equivalent of 4.42 gears. Keeping in mind that is costs about $1000 to regear each axle, it ain't a cheap fix (especially if you have a 4WD).
Changing tire size would be cheaper (and would help your mileage and braking as well), but going to a 34" tire would be almost unnoticeable, and I doubt a 33" tire would bring you from "gutless" to something you'd love.
So sorry, no magic answer here, but maybe some info to help you find your answer.
Junior User
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 63
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my definition of gutless is skewed more than likely because my jeep has 4.88 gears on only 33x10.50's get up and go like you would not believe. Its not fast, but man will it pull hard.
it just feels like i really have to mash the crap out of the gas to get it to go anywhere. maybe im expecting too much out of a 20 year old gas truck.
this axle code is infact 4.10 with LS, correct?
the guy before had all this work done. payed almost five thousand for engine and trans work. he also redid the entire breaking and steering system at this time. (about 5 years ago but less than 10,000 miles) i think he used the truck to tow a boat to the lake and camping trips. no dd. i did see a dyno sheet, but i don't have it. i faintly remember seeing over 500 for something. torque mabey?
it just feels like i really have to mash the crap out of the gas to get it to go anywhere. maybe im expecting too much out of a 20 year old gas truck.
this axle code is infact 4.10 with LS, correct?
the guy before had all this work done. payed almost five thousand for engine and trans work. he also redid the entire breaking and steering system at this time. (about 5 years ago but less than 10,000 miles) i think he used the truck to tow a boat to the lake and camping trips. no dd. i did see a dyno sheet, but i don't have it. i faintly remember seeing over 500 for something. torque mabey?
Fleet Owner
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 20,789
Likes: 1,753
From: Kentucky
Gears will help but it takes a fat wallet to even the score.
This is a perfect example of why I searched for months to find an Excursion with factory 4.30 gears and a V10. Awesome truck that never left me wanting more power in any situation. It never came close to matching my previous two '93 Lightnings but it ran pretty darn good in light of the fact I could travel with 5 other adults and luggage without breaking a sweat.
Now I have 2005 Navigator with a 300HP 3-valve 5.4L V8 and 3.73 gears. Great combination with a 6 speed trans.
Mountain Pass
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 154
Likes: 1
From: IN
My ol stock 96 F250 460, C6 and 4.10's feels fairly strong. I added an Eaton Truetrac in the rear but it still lights them if I try to launch too hard. It will go 0-60 in 8 sec in 4X4.
Not sure if this is about normal for my setup or if it should be stronger.
Todd
Not sure if this is about normal for my setup or if it should be stronger.
Todd