x2 on the no debt thing. I've had 1 car payment before and hatted it. Never again.

From the sound of it, either one of your choices are good. It really depends on what your personal preferences are. I, for one, can never leave my vehicles alone. So that means that I am gonna change things and tweak them to my liking whether it is a $2k IDI or a brand new $50k truck......because of this I go with the $2k IDI. Lot's more $ for me to play with and simpler to work on.

So if I were in your position I would get the older IDI and spend the extra $$ on making it the way you want it....but like I said, that's me.

 

i have both ends of the spectrum.
i love to wrench, but the problem is, you never know when enough is enough.
the rabbit hole often goes much deeper than you think.
i absolutely love my 87 IDI, its my truck of choice.
but when it comes to getting in it and going for a 6 hour drive, i tend to jump into the 01 SD.
but heres the kicker, a newer truck will have the same amount of issues the IDI.
or things you will want to change.
no debt here, altho fuel does go on a CC but gets paid off every month.

if i was to do it again, i would build an IDI, id find the nicest OBS i could, buy a reman 7.3, and be done with it.

you know the age old saying...
if it has **** or tires........
SD interior,

 

I'm sort of puzzled at the comparisons to reliability between IDI and electronic engines. IMO the IDI's are about as simple and reliable as Ford diesels ever were.

I know a lot of folk disagree, but I don't think these IDI's are worth souping up though. You get too close to head gasket woes for too minimal of performance increase. If you wanna soup something up, find a DI engine. Dump a mountain of money into an IDI and you have something that a nearly stock DI engine will outperform in all ways.

The strength of the IDI is that with some *really* simple basic maintenance runs practically forever, while "modern" engines get to chase sensor and complicated fuel system woes.

 

I agree with you on the reliability portion.

What do you mean by "souping up"? If I was going for A LOT of power the IDI may not the best platform. If you want something with decent power to tow moderate loads, the IDI can be made to do it with a lower total investment due to the lower initial purchase cost.

Since the OP is planning on putting a bit of $$ into an IDI (if that is what he chooses to get) I would think that he could end up with a nicely capable truck for a good price.

Just my .02

 

I agree with the reliability part.

However, I have scrounged the Internet, looking at all sorts of info about hopping up an idi, I know what they can be made into and for how much. I liken them to a chevy 350, not the most powerful engine ever, but puts out respectable numbers and does it very cheaply. An intriguing part of the idi diesel is where it lacks a little in hp it makes up for in torque, with most dyno graphs I have seen it is slightly above the 2 to 1 ratio most diesels have for torque to horsepower, most likely due to the higher compression ratio they use.

The one thing I an concerned about is how well an idi will start in the cold, as modern engines are much better at starting than idis, this is to be expected though as newer technology should do better. I have read that adding and electric pusher fuel pump helps with starting tremendously though I am not sure if that is the case or not

So in reality while a 1200 hp cummins would be nice, it is not conducive to towing as by the time I got to the hill the motor would more than likely be real liquidy and slightly melted. In reality I would be more than happy with 300/600 for engine power numbers, and from what I have read on here this is easily obtainable with some work, such as headstuds, upgraded turbo, injectors and pump, and an intercooler. I might even add a cam for giggles, I will go as far as I can while still running safe get Temps while towing, because if I have to baby it up the hills to stay cool I no longer have what I consider a usable or practical truck

 

That pretty much sums up what i was to say. I still dont understand the people that have the "it cant do it because its an IDI" mentality. "likening" as you put it, Comparing an IDI to DI is much the same as carbureted to efi. Does the same thing, just differently. There is no inherent flaw or weakness in one that the other doesnt have. Headgaskets were mentioned, clearly this person has never heard of the 6.0....

Im with you on the babysitting part, if i have to do that (within reason) im not going to be happy. 110 pump, studs, turbo, intercooler boom 400/850. Yes a stock 6.7liter will do that stock, but its not due to being DI, but 30 years of technology. That would be like saying, why build a big block, when you can buy a new 5.0 coyote? To each thier own, i like IDIs because theyre cheap, and i like to be different. Im just as capable as any other flat brimmed idiot, if not more so, of buying a cummins, plugging in a tuner and putting 20" wheels on it.

 

This is basically my thoughts exactly. It would be neat to have all that power but I'd just get myself in trouble using it, haha. Besides it costs A LOT.

Also as for a cam, if you're that far into the engine, why NOT do it? Price per foot-lb only the turbo compares to a good cam upgrade.
And besides making more power, it would seriously widen the power band too.
Man I wish I had a cam and turbo...

 

Everything is relative of course, but 300/600 can be had for 1000-3000 based on new / used, and how good of a bargain hunter you are. IMHO, that is fairly cheap for a 70% bump in HP and 80% increase in torque. To be specific, you can have 300bhp by simply dropping in a used Banks, ATS, or Hypermax turbo kit, plug in an intercooler, stud it, and crank the pump up. If you dont do alot of towing, i would say you wouldnt even have to stud or intercool it, which knocks alot off of the price (studs being $500).

 

Exactly! How cool is that?!?!

 

*Shrug* I guess it is all relative. Dump a mountain of money into an IDI to make it perform like a stock DI. And Do similar mods to a DI and you are pushing at least 600hp.

It's not a matter of new vs old, it's a matter of compression ratio and combustion efficiency. There are very few who are pushing out of *heavily* modded IDI's, what I am running out of a stock long block Cummins with significantly less displacement.

I do remember our last ridiculous discussion, apparently you do not.

These engine types are not of the same ilk. IDI requires higher compression to start, thus the cylinder pressures are very high. High cylinder pressures melt/crack pistons and lift heads off spitting head gaskets. And yes, I have heard of the 6.0 and it's gasser stye four bolt cylinders. I also do my own headwork- not that it's particularly hard though, since almost all diesel heads are 90 degrees.

To be clear: IDI is nowhere near as tolerant of pushing the limits as DI engines. The 6.0 is a special case of weakness. *Very* few DI engines are so fragile.

 

If 600hp is what you classify as "Souped up" then I see your point. However, I don't believe this is the level that the OP was going for. He was looking for something more tame.

As far as the DI vs IDI argument, yes DI is more efficient delivery. Although some very experienced members have looked at the hp per cc of fuel that we get out of our IDI's and it isn't that much off the DI engines. As I understand it, it is the available pump volume that is limiting our engines.

As far as cracking pistons etc.....this could be the case over time. In a single example, though, the bronco pushing 50psi did not break the pistons (IIRC), It was the NA rods that gave way.

I am not saying that at the extremes the IDI is = to a DI diesel. I am saying that you could have a very nice IDI that makes enough power to do what the OP is looking for for "Probably" less $$ due to the purchase price of the vehicle.....and since I like to tinker with stuff constantly the IDI is more appealing to me.

As far as what the OP should do, I think either choice is a good one.

 

Mostly I am disputing the erroneous notion that these types of engines are equivalent. Compression ratio on and IDI is somewhat critical (21 to 23.5:1 in most) for an easy start due to thermal losses in the head. There is no way to make comparable power without making some serious compromises with an IDI engine- with the exception of some very mild boost.

And yes, I aware that it is technically possible to push big boost through an IDI engine. But compression ratio must be severely dropped, and starting becomes a noteworthy engineering challenge.

The reason I make the effort to dispute this, is that *way* too many folks don't understand the limitations of an IDI.

Thinking you can soup up an IDI to make something comparable to a DI is just flat wrong. The IDI will be closer to it's failure limits, and will never make the same fuel efficiency.

These things are pretty good engines, but unrealistic expectations lead to breaking them, and/or disappointment.

PS You have to cherry pick your numbers to have DI engines show close thermal efficiency. Keep in mind, a lot of DI engines are tuned retarded from the factory, or have Rube Goldberg after treatment systems that butcher efficiency.

 

So what kind of power numbers are IDI folks getting with a Banks or Hypermax kit, an inter-cooler and a turned up turbo pump running 10-14 pounds? I guess I can google it.

 

I get the biggest grin out of hooking onto something real and making things get into their work. Plenty of that on Google/you tube etc

 

Most run that boost without an intercooler. Depending on if it's a kit or an improved custom turbo setup, its easy to approach 20 psi with a turned up pump. Optimized motors are usually around 220-250 rwhp, or 300+ at the crank.

What most people don't understand is that past about 350hp the extra power is useless on the street. My uncle has a pretty hot 7.3ps that has about 400 to the wheels without a chip. He says he can't floor it in any gear without busting it loose. He still pulls heavy with it but isn't(doesn't have to) run it full out and risk melting down. The point being that yes can inevitably get more out of newer motors but for a work truck that is cheap and reliable the idi is hard to beat.