When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
First, Yahiko thank you for your time and effort with this issue I ordered the relay tester from Amazon as you requested. I can already see the value of this troubleshooting item with these trucks.
CBM's: I know for a fact the Accessory Delay Relay (ADR) is NOT shorted. How do I know this? After installing the newly refurbished cluster you guys sent me, I drove for about an hour with said part working pefect. Once I stopped and turned the key off, the radio was on and when I opened the door the radio turned off and window operation was inoperable as per normal operating procedure. The success was short lived.
As I stood outside the truck, I remotely locked the doors and all seemed well. However and to my suprise I watched as the radio turned on by itself without me doing anything. I immediately unlocked the truck, pulled the fuse panel and removed the ADR killing power to the radio and window operation. To verify without proper tools, I slowly installed the relay only to hear and feel the relay actuate. I partially inserted the relay and quickly removed it hearing the relay actuate and release as per normal relay operations.
All day yesterday I drove around town with the relay removed to keep from having to worry about my batteries loosing charged and frying the FICM. As of this morning, I went outside to reinstall the relay only to find that as soon as I reinstalled felt and heard the relay energize and watched as the radio immediately turned on.
So...the ADR is getting control voltage from the accessory cluster (Battery Saver) which invokes the all important question; Why? Why is the cluster sending control voltage to the ADR? Is the Cluster shorting? Is the cluster receiving control voltage from somewhere else?
Thanks again for all the assistance everyone! I really appreciate it!!!
The only reason I did not jumps is they had not gotten the new
white background done at the time for my side gauges that go with the
center Ford Amarillo Edition dash package. If I recall it right they don't use
the cheap stick on overlays like all the Fleabay people do. So I said I could wait for it.
We do have the overlays for the stock Amarillo clusters now. I do remember talking to you about making your gauges easier to read. Which specific "side gauges" are you referencing though? I want to make sure I give you the right answer. Can you upload a pic?
First, Yahiko thank you for your time and effort with this issue I ordered the relay tester from Amazon as you requested. I can already see the value of this troubleshooting item with these trucks.
CBM's: I know for a fact the Accessory Delay Relay (ADR) is NOT shorted. How do I know this? After installing the newly refurbished cluster you guys sent me, I drove for about an hour with said part working pefect. Once I stopped and turned the key off, the radio was on and when I opened the door the radio turned off and window operation was inoperable as per normal operating procedure. The success was short lived.
As I stood outside the truck, I remotely locked the doors and all seemed well. However and to my suprise I watched as the radio turned on by itself without me doing anything. I immediately unlocked the truck, pulled the fuse panel and removed the ADR killing power to the radio and window operation. To verify without proper tools, I slowly installed the relay only to hear and feel the relay actuate. I partially inserted the relay and quickly removed it hearing the relay actuate and release as per normal relay operations.
All day yesterday I drove around town with the relay removed to keep from having to worry about my batteries loosing charged and frying the FICM. As of this morning, I went outside to reinstall the relay only to find that as soon as I reinstalled felt and heard the relay energize and watched as the radio immediately turned on.
So...the ADR is getting control voltage from the accessory cluster (Battery Saver) which invokes the all important question; Why? Why is the cluster sending control voltage to the ADR? Is the Cluster shorting? Is the cluster receiving control voltage from somewhere else?
Thanks again for all the assistance everyone! I really appreciate it!!!
I just saw this, so I asked our technical team to call you for some further troubleshooting. My biggest concern is figuring out what would take 30 minutes to cause the battery saver circuit to fail with the new cluster. Have you shipped your original cluster (core) to us yet? I have it flagged in our system to test immediately upon receipt to see if gives us any clues as to what is going on.
We do have the overlays for the stock Amarillo clusters now. I do remember talking to you about making your gauges easier to read. Which specific "side gauges" are you referencing though? I want to make sure I give you the right answer. Can you upload a pic?
The Trans temp.Engine temp, Fule level and Oil pressure.
Were the ones that at the time you said that you did not have in white background.
One thought on the OP's relay issue. If he could measure the current on the coil side of the accessory delay relay
and the current that relay is then controlling. I think that might shed some light on it.
I just saw this, so I asked our technical team to call you for some further troubleshooting. My biggest concern is figuring out what would take 30 minutes to cause the battery saver circuit to fail with the new cluster. Have you shipped your original cluster (core) to us yet? I have it flagged in our system to test immediately upon receipt to see if gives us any clues as to what is going on.
Circuit Board Medics, I agree...what would cause the 30 minute delayed short. I did notice yesterday that the problem seems intermittent. With the ADR in place, it did work correctly twice, but most times not. I shipped out the core cluster yesterday. Thanks for help guys!
Circuit Board Medics, I agree...what would cause the 30 minute delayed short. I did notice yesterday that the problem seems intermittent. With the ADR in place, it did work correctly twice, but most times not. I shipped out the core cluster yesterday. Thanks for help guys!
I have your order flagged so that we test your core when it comes in and look for clues as to what is going on. I'll feel better once we confirm that there was a problem with the original cluster, and hopefully we will find something that points us in a better direction for troubleshooting. Your symptoms are perfectly aligned with a bad cluster, so what we have to figure out now is if something is overtaxing the cluster after 30 minutes, or if it was even a cluster problem in the beginning. I jumped in and told you that it was a cluster based on the symptoms, so if it ends up being a misdiagnosis, we will certainly own that.
Can you check a few things in the meantime? When the radio remains on (and shouldn't), pull the accessory delay relay, and check for 12V between pin 85 and ground. Don't use pin 86 as your ground, just use a vehicle ground. If you do have +12VDC on pin 85, then check for continuity between pin 86 and ground. Lastly, check for +12VDC between 85 and 86. Report back with these, and we can start tracing from there.
I've attached a footprint of the accessory delay relay to ensure that 85 and 86 are clear. I've also attached a diagram of the battery saver circuit coming from the cluster.
I have your order flagged so that we test your core when it comes in and look for clues as to what is going on. I'll feel better once we confirm that there was a problem with the original cluster, and hopefully we will find something that points us in a better direction for troubleshooting. Your symptoms are perfectly aligned with a bad cluster, so what we have to figure out now is if something is overtaxing the cluster after 30 minutes, or if it was even a cluster problem in the beginning. I jumped in and told you that it was a cluster based on the symptoms, so if it ends up being a misdiagnosis, we will certainly own that.
Can you check a few things in the meantime? When the radio remains on (and shouldn't), pull the accessory delay relay, and check for 12V between pin 85 and ground. Don't use pin 86 as your ground, just use a vehicle ground. If you do have +12VDC on pin 85, then check for continuity between pin 86 and ground. Lastly, check for +12VDC between 85 and 86. Report back with these, and we can start tracing from there.
I've attached a footprint of the accessory delay relay to ensure that 85 and 86 are clear. I've also attached a diagram of the battery saver circuit coming from the cluster.
Okay here is what I got. First, sorry for the tardy reply, long shifts.
As per your request:
No power on 85 (used chassis ground)
No power on 86 (used chassis ground)
12 volts are present when checked for volts between 85 and 86 (used 85 as ground)
To verify that 85 was grounded, I used 85 as my ground and to check volts on 30 and 12 volts were displayed.
Thanks for your time on the phone this morning. We will figure this out. In order to help other FTE members, I'm going to keep this thread active instead of just taking the troubleshooting offline and doing it all by phone. We have a stray voltage or floating ground that is pulling in the ADR, so in order for us to narrow down which it is, please post the following values measured with your voltmeter. Please note if the value is + or - as well. I'll go ahead and fill in what we know so far.
On the ATR with the ignition OFF and DOOR OPEN (scenario where radio should be off if it was working correctly):
Positive lead on 30, negative lead on 85: +12VDC
Positive lead on 30, negative lead on 86: ??
Positive lead on 86, negative lead on 85: +12VDC
Positive lead on 85, negative lead to chassis ground: 0
Positive lead on 86, negative lead to chassis ground: 0
On the ATR with the ignition ON (scenario where radio should be on):
Positive lead on 30, negative lead on 85: ??
Positive lead on 30, negative lead on 86: ??
Positive lead on 86, negative lead on 85: ??
Positive lead on 85, negative lead to chassis ground: ??
Positive lead on 86, negative lead to chassis ground: ??
Thanks for your time on the phone this morning. We will figure this out. In order to help other FTE members, I'm going to keep this thread active instead of just taking the troubleshooting offline and doing it all by phone. We have a stray voltage or floating ground that is pulling in the ADR, so in order for us to narrow down which it is, please post the following values measured with your voltmeter. Please note if the value is + or - as well. I'll go ahead and fill in what we know so far.
On the ATR with the ignition OFF and DOOR OPEN (scenario where radio should be off if it was working correctly):
Positive lead on 30, negative lead on 85: +12VDC
Positive lead on 30, negative lead on 86: ??
Positive lead on 86, negative lead on 85: +12VDC
Positive lead on 85, negative lead to chassis ground: 0
Positive lead on 86, negative lead to chassis ground: 0
On the ATR with the ignition ON (scenario where radio should be on):
Positive lead on 30, negative lead on 85: ??
Positive lead on 30, negative lead on 86: ??
Positive lead on 86, negative lead on 85: ??
Positive lead on 85, negative lead to chassis ground: ??
Positive lead on 86, negative lead to chassis ground: ??
Hey guys, I'm not ignoring you. I went to take the readings you requested and low and behold the darn thing is working correctly!
This is obviously an intermittent issue, which makes it twice as hard to fix. I'm sure the short will rear its ugly head today sometime and I will then get your readings
Last edited by Carpenterw1; Nov 12, 2015 at 05:10 PM.
Reason: More Information
UPDATE:
Well I was correct. As I was running errands today the gremlin appeared again. In other words, when I turned the key off with door closed, the radio was on. When I opened the door, the radio turned off. I was only gone for about 30 mins when I returned to truck only to see the radio had come on by itself.
Additionally, I could hear the ADR quick cycling, turning on-off, on-off. As the relay was shorting back and forth I watched as the radio mirrored the relays operation. I quickly returned home to get the readings that were asked for.
On the ADR With the ignition off and door open:
Positive lead on 30, negative on 86: 0
On the ADR With ignition on and door open or closed:
Positive lead on 30, negative lead on 85: 12 VDC
Positive lead on 30, negative lead on 86: 0 volts
Positive lead on 86, negative lead on 85: 12 VDC
Positive lead on 85, negative lead to chassis ground: 0 volts
Positive lead on 86, negative lead to chassis ground: 12 VDC
The Trans temp.Engine temp, Fuel level and Oil pressure.
Were the ones that at the time you said that you did not have in white background.
No, we only have the Ford OEM overlays for the Amarillo at this time. We don't use the cheap stickers over the overlays, so it's been tough to dial in the white background where we're happy with it.
Regarding the OP's issue, I think we have it dialed in to stray voltage on the circuit for Fuse 33. We did an autopsy of his original cluster, and we also figured out what could cause the damage we found coupled with the symptoms he is still seeing with a new cluster, and it seems that somehow the circuit with Fuse 33 is getting voltage with the key out of the ignition. He is going to check my theory tonight or tomorrow and report back. If my theory is confirmed, then we are getting voltage from a faulty ignition switch, a chaffed wire between the switch and the fusebox, or a faulty fusebox.
Bill, any update? I've been thinking about this all day. It's a disease, but I can't rest until we solve this! I'm still banking on you having voltage on fuse 33 though.
Hey man no updates yet, been working all weekend so the truck has been parked. I should have an update tomorrow. I will post tomorrow as soon as the gremlin shows its head.
Okay, the truck was actually working the last 1.5 days then the gremlin appeared today. KOEO, door open, I checked at fuse 33 like you requested and there was 1.85 volts.
