A little over a month ago I needed to buy a truck quickly. My previous vehicle had been stolen and totaled. I wasn't looking for a 6.0 but in a panicked moment my wife pushed me to buy the one I now have. Nothing about it felt right but I couldn't put my finger on it and my wife thought I was just being picky. So to do the best I could for it. I started going through this forum trying to learn everything I could to keep it going. Did oil and filter change. Found the stock intake on cl put that on it. Printed off the new to me checklist from the tech folder and started plodding my way through it. Got my gauges a week ago put them on and woops deltas are in the 50's no load warmed up highway speed. Don't want to make the time to fix it myself because I'm in the middle of remodeling my house. Bring it to the mechanic. He says dusted turbo, blown head gasket, possibly cracked head (fuel in the coolant I guess), and maybe a bad water pump. He's got a good reputation and I don't think his diagnosis is in question.

The problem is that when I bought the truck I put 5000 aside for the day it pukes. Now the bill is looking more like 10,000. That just isn't feasible. I have decent mechanical ability. I have an old 89 idi that with the help of FTE I can fix anything on. But I'm not sure how much of that experience transfers here. I've got basic tools and a three stall garage. But I'd have to take time off from work to fix this thing fast enough to not forget how I took it apart.

So what do you guys think I should do? Bite the bullet and fix it myself. I would prefer if there was a6.0 for dummy's book or something for that endeavor. Or should I just bite the other bullet and sell it for half what I paid for it? I can't not disclose its issues, it's the curse of the mostly honest.

 

That is a tough one, with fuel in the coolant I would replace both heads, what would worry me is if there were damage to the bottom end and if that is the case you could tack on another 5 grand to the repair bill and install a complete rebuilt engine from ford.

What year is the truck?

 

Hate to hear any story like this.

I'm doubting the diagnosis. He needs to provide you explanations for his diagnosis. Fuel in the coolant is a bad one, but you said, "I guess". If there is fuel in the coolant, have him show you, but don't forwarn him you will be asking about it.

Be sure about it before doing anything. The mechanic may have a good reputation on other vehicles, but this 6.0L takes a different set of knowledge to know what you're doing. They are just not like other engines. So, if he hasn't worked on many 6.0s, I wouldn't trust his diagnosis.

Many heads and head gaskets have been replaced when the only problem was a simple failed EGR cooler.

How does he know the turbo is bad? Unless its obvious (lots of play or damaged veins), it normally requires a dissection of the turbo to know if a turbo is bad. A bad EBP or MAP sensor, or a plugged MAP or EBP sensor tube could fool someone.

A delta of 50 is huge at 65 mph. Double check your gauge setup.

Does it have an EGR delete? If so, it can be straight forward to diagnose a head gasket.

"Possible head gasket" and "maybe a bad water pump" make me wonder.

I'm sorry. I know I'm no help other than to say be sure about diagnoses before jumping. Rent a car if needed. Borrow one from a relative. Just be sure before spending the money. I've got the same $3,000 saved for studs and head gaskets because I was the same as you when I purchased mine. However, maintenance is all they need and I'd wager a house payment that the $3k will still be unspent in 10 years.

 

I'll try to answer all those questions.

I'm typing all this on my phone so I've tried to keep some things brief. My computer is and will stay boxed up until I'm done with drywall at my house, so this is my only connection to the net.

Truck is a 2004
130,000 miles

Has egr delete. There is no cooler or pipe and the y pipe is plated off where it once existed. Hopefully the intake is too. Lol

The mechanic did provide explanations to back up his diagnosis, the I guess comment had more to do with me not being 100% sure that fuel in coolant means a high probability of a cracked head. The degass bottle is distorted and discolored which I believe indicates fuel?

I thought the turbo might be bad before I brought it in and I didn't tell him my suspicions in regards to it. The intake side looks like it's eaten a few small rocks. And there isn't a machine mark left on it, looks like it's been freshly sand blasted. I took pictures when I put the stock intake back on it to upload here for scientific analysis, but of course like a relative newbie I haven't taken the time to read the how to upload pictures thread yet. Also it farts when you let of the peddle.

I used a cts monitor for the gauges. EOT and ECT start within a half degree when cold over night. Then climb together within 10-15 degrees. Then coolant tops out at about 195. And EOT just keeps marching on. I don't know that it actually stops at 50, just that since I've had the gauges that's as far as I've let it go. If I idle to let the oil cool, it will go down but it takes almost 20 min to get back to a Delta of 15.

He suspected water pump was rubbing on front cover because the coolant was foaming or frothing. This was the one point that I didn't fully understand. And he said he wasn't sure of this one because there was a chance all of the other gases and stuff that shouldn't be in the coolant could maybe cause that. But that it was something he felt he should check on.

As to the complete rebuilt Ford engine. What does that cost? And if less than 10,000 (unlikely but I'm forever hopeful) where does one go to get that.

Thanks for your continued help,
Joe

 

the ECT-EOT delta of 50 or more indicates a clogged oil cooler, $300 or so and some time. Being a smart guy, you could do the job with help from us. If the oil cooler is ruptured, that could make the degas discolored.

If the degas is puking coolant, then that may indicate a ruptured head gasket. Cracked head will put fuel in the coolant. Have you smelled the tank or had the mechanic check the pressure of the tank when the trucks warmed up to full temp?

Sounds like an aftermarket air cleaner was on the truck. I would think as long as the turbo doesn't have any end play, fins spin smooth and the vanes move correctly (it still farts, that's good), replacing it would be down the priority list.

Waterpump, $120 and two hours work... done in the driveway. The foaming coolant is a big deal to check.

Have him put a gauge on the tank and see how fast coolant builds pressure... but if it's full of fuel... don't bother, you'll need heads.

You can pick-up a long block for around $5k, swapping it over could be done.

 

IMHO you'd be better off looking for a used engine or contact Asheville engine and get something with a warranty. The truck is relatively low mileage for a diesel and should last a long time.

If your mechanically inclined, and it sounds like you are, it's not that hard a job to do the engine yourself and you can save yourself some money. The bottom end on these is very stout and not usually a concern. I can send you engine repair manuals and a lot of part numbers. Fuel in the coolant is gonna mean replacing everything rubber in the coolant system, but it doesn't usually trash bearings in the motor. AFA the turbo goes, if the housing isn't trashed and it's just the impeller then you can get a bearing kit for under $100 and a stock impeller pretty cheap.

 

I was talking about Ashville Engine, I think they're asking $4900 for a rebuilt motor.

 

That seems high to me. A lot of that could be for new heads. Might be able to buy a set on craigslist and have them rebuilt and supply them to the mechanic. I am tempted to pick up this engine just for parts and cores
http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/pts/5245336915.html

 

Kudos to you for not just selling this thing as is and not disclosing things.
I bought an '03 with a ton of stuff not disclosed, and had it not been for me encouraging the owner to lower the price after a stop payment on the check I would have been that much deeper into things. Sometimes best to just cut ones losses and walk away, not saying that is the case here. If the body and drive train are in good shape you can still drive her long enough to make it worth fixing.

 

The listing has been deleted. I hate when they do that.......

 

For me it would depend on several things.

What the value of the truck? What year model? Mileage? The '05 and up have some nice upgrades brakes, suspension etc. Is it in particularly good shape for your area as far as rust and general condition? Any special options? FX4, Crew cab, dually? And if it were running good would it fit your needs? If it's not in great shape aside from the engine problems I'd sell it as a parts truck.

Can you do the work? Sounds like you're familiar with general wrench turning just hesitant over the details and the time involved. Labor is going to add considerable cost to making this truck right. If the budget is tight and you can pull it off yourself that's like money in the bank. A good mechanic these days could easily cost as much or more than the parts.

More info is needed to decide if the engine is repairable. Which means some disassembly before even ordering parts. With oil temps that high for who knows how long, check the oil filter stand pipe for signs of melting. If it's twisted and sagging or (gulp) gone, I'd stop there and consider a replacement engine. Does it squeak just as it stops on shut down? If so, pull the belt to rule it out and if it still does it, plan to inspect the camshaft while the heads are off. A failed lifter means camshaft damage and the cam comes out of the block AFTER the crankshaft. This leaves you looking at a rebuild or replacement.

If you get this far and it looks ok, then the question becomes one head or both. It could be leaking fuel from the injector cup(s) which are steel pressed into an iorn head and there are tools and procedures for replacing them, however our Techs here have posted several times they've had little luck making a good repair by replacing them and I would certainly take their word on that. Once the heads are off and the source of the fuel leak(s) is verified, you'll also get a good look at the cylinder and piston condition.

Armed with all this info you can now make an informed decision as far as what parts to change. In my experience, in the "tight budget" situation, I'd might even consider looking for a similar year truck (either '03-'04 or '05 and up) for cheap and make one good truck out of the two. You'll get another turbo, 8 more injectors, another FICM etc. etc. and avoid possibly expensive surprises, assuming you can find a running wreck or rust bucket.

If you opt for the shop to work on the truck I'd ask them to do a tear down and inspection before committing to the direction the parts and repairs will take. As I said before, if it's a sweet truck, a warrantied replacement engine or even a rebuild may set you back a bit more now but work out better in the long run than a patch job on an engine with hidden issues. And from what you've posted this one has had a hard life.

 

Go on youtube and watch a few videos on the 6.0. You will be more confident in working on your 6.0. Take a few photos of where exactly something came from. As far as diesel vs gas goes, they both look the same with the heads off. There are a few tricks to reassemble a diesel so that you don't screw something up. But we and youtube can help you as you go. Before buying heads, take yours to a good diesel machine shop to pressure test yours. If they test good, you can do the sinister head studs and water pump for less than $5,000.

 

Dusted turbo is a bad sign.
Pull the cac tubes off and check blowby on the engine.
As stated a good used engine or a reman may offer better results.

 

If you go with a used engine give this guy a shout

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-Ford-6-0L-6-0-Powerstroke-Diesel-Engine-Short-Block-Complete-18mm-block-/191661551337?hash=item2c9feb2ee9
Send him a message and let him know what your looking for. He has things that are not out for auction.
I know that he has some drop in engines.

I have used him in the past and he does a good job.




Sean

6.0L Tech Folder

 

It WAS good when I posted it
"2005 with 160,000 miles, had miss and pulled to do Cummins conversion. complete with turbo & up pipes, no FICM or wiring $900 OBO"
There was also a rolled 2005 King Ranch not too long ago. spose to run good, around $5,000