Why do we need a stronger frame?
Posting Guru
Joined: Nov 2010
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Why all the fuss over commercials.......and who's advertising more, are you guys shareholders? Who cares ? Do you buy because of a commercial or because you have more than a reasonable amount of knowledge about what's available and what you like. To the thread title do we need a stronger frame? .......yes we do , there's never been a better time in the history of automobile manufacturing than now and yet we only want to split hairs about a trucks design and ability 
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jul 2004
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You got it! That's the problem with most any IFS.
Mountain Pass
Joined: May 2011
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Yeah that is definetly one of the big advantages of the solide axle. Another one would be that fact that the xle transfers the ground pressure directly to the other side if one wheel is liftet and of course the internal partys are better secured.
But nonetheless, there is a reason why pretty much all baja trucks and military fast attack vehicles are using IS, it just can handle fast incoming shocks better since there is no "free"? mass jungling under the body.
But to use this bonus to it's full extend you had to use is on both ends, and that's probably not gonna happen.
And i think the dana super 60 with some minor upgrades shopuld be stronger than the chevy IFS right?
But again: Anyone got the frame measurements of the new boxed frame already?
But nonetheless, there is a reason why pretty much all baja trucks and military fast attack vehicles are using IS, it just can handle fast incoming shocks better since there is no "free"? mass jungling under the body.
But to use this bonus to it's full extend you had to use is on both ends, and that's probably not gonna happen.
And i think the dana super 60 with some minor upgrades shopuld be stronger than the chevy IFS right?
But again: Anyone got the frame measurements of the new boxed frame already?
Lead Driver
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,465
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From: Calgary Canada
There's a lot more to frame stiffness than measurements. There are thousands of different alloys of steel, and I would suggest that unless you are a metallurgist, it's going to be very hard to back-calculate any kind of stiffness from the measurements of the C-channel or box section.
I have some experience with this topic in oilfield use, and it's possible to at least double the strength per cross-sectional area of pipes using different steel metallurgy, and that's without going into anything too exotic. It is definitely possible to triple it if you don't mind getting into a more brittle situation. I'm not an automotive engineer, so I don't know the stress-strain trade-offs for a truck frame application, but I'm sure these days, they are paying close attention to the metallurgy, and it's probably many steps up from what was used even ten years ago.
I have some experience with this topic in oilfield use, and it's possible to at least double the strength per cross-sectional area of pipes using different steel metallurgy, and that's without going into anything too exotic. It is definitely possible to triple it if you don't mind getting into a more brittle situation. I'm not an automotive engineer, so I don't know the stress-strain trade-offs for a truck frame application, but I'm sure these days, they are paying close attention to the metallurgy, and it's probably many steps up from what was used even ten years ago.
Mountain Pass
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 150
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Well i got some codes of the metal used on Unimogs and trucks over here in germany and it is not that exotic, also did not change much since the 80's
It has to be a steel able to flex a little (even if boxed) and also it has be easy to drill, weld etc. So in the end it's all far from anything high-tech from what i've seen.
Of course the measurements are not anything, like i said the number and design of the crossmembers is also very important!
But i would guess the measurements are more important than the different alloys at least within the small groups that have been used so far.
There are of course exceptions, the IVECO Daily 4x4 for example uses an alloy that is kinda exotic, very durable but very hard to weld. Which is why this truck has a boxed frame which is not compsed of two c-frame rails welded together but srewed together, which is extremely exotic.
It has to be a steel able to flex a little (even if boxed) and also it has be easy to drill, weld etc. So in the end it's all far from anything high-tech from what i've seen.
Of course the measurements are not anything, like i said the number and design of the crossmembers is also very important!
But i would guess the measurements are more important than the different alloys at least within the small groups that have been used so far.
There are of course exceptions, the IVECO Daily 4x4 for example uses an alloy that is kinda exotic, very durable but very hard to weld. Which is why this truck has a boxed frame which is not compsed of two c-frame rails welded together but srewed together, which is extremely exotic.
Mountain Pass
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 150
Likes: 1
From the frame-advertisement in the other threat i know that ford states, the new frame rail is gonna be one inch taller than before.
This would result in a mid-sektion height of 215mm instead of the old 190mm.
Interestingly enough, Chevy's boxed frame is exactly 215 in height too .....
Would not be surprised if ford ends up with pretty much the same 215x90x4.5mm as chevy
This would result in a mid-sektion height of 215mm instead of the old 190mm.
Interestingly enough, Chevy's boxed frame is exactly 215 in height too .....
Would not be surprised if ford ends up with pretty much the same 215x90x4.5mm as chevy
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,515
Likes: 198
I think the boxed frame will be a significant improvement, but I hope Ford does a good job of corrosion protection. Remember the Toyota frame problems of a few years ago? Inadequate protection and poor drainage. GM completely dips their boxed frames in a hot wax type coating and it does a good job getting inside the frame rails. Ford should use something similar.
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,154
Likes: 7,984
From: Texas
I know every situation is different, but there is a lot of advertising hype going on here. Does "stiffer" necessarily mean "stronger"?
Just to throw something out here in the mix, a good friend just this past summer had the frame on his 10 year old Dodge 3500 dually break right behind the cab, while going down the road! It threw him off the road, rolled, and was totaled! Thankfully, he did not get hurt! And no, we do not know the full history on the truck or the situation!
And yup, there is a lot more than just comparing cross section thickness, etc. when comparing one type to another. But, as stated previously, when/if the class 8 trucks start going to a fully boxed frame, I might worry about it!
And yes, frame "stiffness" will undoubtedly lead to better feel, ride and handling quality on the road.
And this discussion can go on forever! LOL! Have a great day, and new year, folks!
Just to throw something out here in the mix, a good friend just this past summer had the frame on his 10 year old Dodge 3500 dually break right behind the cab, while going down the road! It threw him off the road, rolled, and was totaled! Thankfully, he did not get hurt! And no, we do not know the full history on the truck or the situation!
And yup, there is a lot more than just comparing cross section thickness, etc. when comparing one type to another. But, as stated previously, when/if the class 8 trucks start going to a fully boxed frame, I might worry about it!
And yes, frame "stiffness" will undoubtedly lead to better feel, ride and handling quality on the road.
And this discussion can go on forever! LOL! Have a great day, and new year, folks!
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Posting Guru
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The boxed frame and increased rear legroom is why I'm waiting for the 2017. IMO, a stiffer frame will translate to less rattles as the truck ages and a more finely tuned suspension for improved ride and control.
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