2.3L Timing HELP - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums



Ranger & B-Series All Ford Ranger and Mazda B-Series models

2.3L Timing HELP

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 08-24-2015, 02:17 PM
tobyw tobyw is offline
Senior User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Tri-Cities, WA
Posts: 319
tobyw is starting off with a positive reputation.
2.3L Timing HELP

Trying to get a 1983 Ford Ranger 2.3L to fire up. Back story is the truck was parked ~15 years ago when the timing belt broke, and Iím now planning to stab the 2.3L into my flat fender. Unfortunately, like many 2.3Lís, the plastic timing cover and marks are long gone. Here is what Iíve done so far to try and get initial timing set with the new belt:

ē Verified #1 TDC on compression
ē Verified the pointer on the cam sprocket was aimed directly at the centerline of the auxiliary sprocket
ē Rotated the auxiliary sprocket so the distributor rotor is pointing directly at the #1 distributor cap post
ē Installed the timing belt and put it under adequate tension, ensuring the lineup above remained in tact
ē Verified all plug wires are on the correct distributor cap posts and corresponding plugs in the cyldinders

With the above done, it still just wonít light off and run. The 2.3L distributor is wired for a Duraspark setup, using one of the typical Motocraft ignition modules. Iíve got power to the coil under both key ON and START positions, and Iíve tried it with all combinations of the OEM and new aftermarket coils and ignition modulesÖ The carb is clean and putting fuel into the carb throat, but it wonít light off with starting fluid or straight fuel either. So, Iím either way off on initial timing setup or something is wrong with my wiringÖ Can anyone provide any thoughts or suggestions? Iím not above starting over, but Iíve done what I think is the correct procedure (above) for setting baseline timing at least a dozen times. Thanks in advance for ANY help!!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-24-2015, 05:20 PM
KF4EYR KF4EYR is online now
Senior User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: florida
Posts: 178
KF4EYR is starting off with a positive reputation.
are you getting spark to plugs? i know this sounds silly but have seen it done before but is the rotor in the distribator,, seen one feller work all day try to start engine after tune up and turned out to be he forgot to put rotor back in,,,,have you pulled and cleaned/replaced the plugs?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-24-2015, 10:52 PM
wtroger wtroger is offline
Postmaster
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 2,873
wtroger is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.wtroger is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Point the keys on the cam and aux sprocket straight down. Crank key straight up. You wil notice the timing mark on the crank lines up with a notch in the crank seal housing
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-25-2015, 06:55 AM
tomw tomw is offline
Postmaster
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: suburban atlanta
Posts: 4,706
tomw has a very good reputation on FTE.tomw has a very good reputation on FTE.tomw has a very good reputation on FTE.tomw has a very good reputation on FTE.
If the cam and ignition timing are 'close', it should fire off. May not produce a lot of power, but should make enough to run.
Have you checked that your ignition system is working? The spritz down the carb insured fuel was there, and you had no reaction... I'd bet that there is no sparky.
If you can crank it over and the starter responds to the compression by slowing, even just a bit, you can get a little more confidence the timing is 'ballpark'.
From memory, the coil should fire as the key is turned from ON to OFF. May be mistaken on that, but if you have 12v to the coil in ON, then the coil should make a spark when the key is turned to OFF. You can just measure from one terminal to ground, one will be 12, or battery, the other will be an alternative route, through your meter, to ground. Anyway, the coil should fire when juice is removed.
tom
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-25-2015, 10:02 AM
pawpaw pawpaw is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: SW Va
Posts: 11,652
pawpaw is a splendid one to beholdpawpaw is a splendid one to beholdpawpaw is a splendid one to beholdpawpaw is a splendid one to beholdpawpaw is a splendid one to beholdpawpaw is a splendid one to beholdpawpaw is a splendid one to behold
Connect your inductive timing light to any easy to reach plug wire, or coil to distributor wire & crank the engine to safely see if spark is present.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-25-2015, 10:23 AM
Thinlizzy13 Thinlizzy13 is offline
Senior User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: CNY
Posts: 236
Thinlizzy13 is starting off with a positive reputation.
Like was mentioned before, check to make sure you have spark at the plugs. I've had a dizzy go bad before. If you have spark at the plugs there's also always the possibility your dizzy is 180 out...I've had that happen to me before....
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-25-2015, 11:24 AM
tobyw tobyw is offline
Senior User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Tri-Cities, WA
Posts: 319
tobyw is starting off with a positive reputation.
Thanks for all the feedback guys!

Didn't have a chance to mess with it last night, hopefully will again tonight. I have already replaced the cap/rotor/plugs/wires, coil and Duraspark module with NAPA replacement parts, and have tried darn near every combination of new/used parts thinking something might be bad... I'll double check spark again tonight, but I'm pretty sure it's there because it will sometimes spit/sputter for a couple of revolutions, but absolutely will NOT run...
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-26-2015, 08:55 AM
tomw tomw is offline
Postmaster
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: suburban atlanta
Posts: 4,706
tomw has a very good reputation on FTE.tomw has a very good reputation on FTE.tomw has a very good reputation on FTE.tomw has a very good reputation on FTE.
Remove the plug from #1. Either use a finger or a piece of hose and a finger and crank the engine slowly to feel the compression stroke, and observe where the distributor rotor is pointing. The engine will rotate two times for each distributor rotation, so the dist is a bit slower and you can tell when it should be coming up on compression. That'll give you a ballpark that 1)you have compression and 2) your rotor is in the ballpark.
On the other hand... You can set the crankshaft at TDC, or the keyway at noon if that is easier, and see that the rotor is near #1. If you rotate the distributor body, key on, the coil will 'tick' as it sparks. You can rotate the bowl 'past' the spot where it should be, and then rotate in the opposite direction until the 'tick' happens. Lock the dist down, and you are firing at TDC. Read up on 'static timing', but the idea is to set it without the vacuum and centrifugal advance things in play. The rotation fakes the distributor into working as if the rotor turned 'past' the pickup by moving the pickup past the rotor. You can also check for spark by doing the same thing.
tom
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-26-2015, 11:32 AM
tobyw tobyw is offline
Senior User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Tri-Cities, WA
Posts: 319
tobyw is starting off with a positive reputation.
Good stuff, thanks for the reply!

I know I'm TDC on compression via my calibrated thumb over the plug hole. Also verified by the keyway on the crank, and the timing mark on the crank lines up with the notch in the front cover... As for the cam, my only reference point is to have the timing mark pointing dead center at the auxiliary shaft bolt, as the plastic timing mark piece of the cover is long gone. But from the pics I have been able to find on the Google machine, my cam is at least in the ballpark. All of this with the rotor pointing at #1... I have visually verified the rotor points to #1 during the compression stroke of #1 cylinder, so I just don't get it?? I'll take a listen for the tick you mention as the rotor passes and see if that leads anywhere. Thanks again!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-26-2015, 08:56 PM
g_k50 g_k50 is offline
Postmaster
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2,985
g_k50 is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.g_k50 is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Cycle the crankshaft while checking the other cylinders for proper orientation of the piston and valves. In other words, there should be a similar compression found at the spark plug hole in the correct firing order.


You should look for signs that your cam is 180 degrees out.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-27-2015, 09:56 AM
tomw tomw is offline
Postmaster
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: suburban atlanta
Posts: 4,706
tomw has a very good reputation on FTE.tomw has a very good reputation on FTE.tomw has a very good reputation on FTE.tomw has a very good reputation on FTE.
The cam cannot be 180 out and have compression. It will rotate 180 for each 360 of the crankshaft, so when at TDC on the exhaust stroke, the 'gases' will be going out the exhaust valve, rather than being compressed and forcing a thumb off the plug threads.
IF the pressure is >100psi, it is compression, and somewhat close to being in time. If it is just backpressure level pressure, it is exhaust stroke.
OTOH, if it were 180 out, check #4 for compression when the marker comes up to TDC. 1&4, 3&2 both are in the same stroke on the crankshaft, so #4 is either on compression or exhaust. The way this is working out, I would be ready to remove the cam cover and crank the engine over to watch the valves move to see if they are performing as expected.
One other thing to check is that the plug wires are actually in the expected position. If things have been disturbed, the #1 wire may not be where you expect. For example, if the distributor has been removed, and installed a few teeth from factory, the wires may be clocked in one direction or the other, instead of being in sync with the #1 label on the cap. If that were the case, and the ignition was firing, I would have expected some pops and barks, or backfires from the intake as the plugs fired in odd moments.
From a few k miles away, I suspect the sparks are not occurring. Even with all new parts, you are not getting enough response. Are you sure there is fuel in the tank? Have you squirted some carb cleaner or WD40 into the intake as a substitute fuel? Have you checked for 12v at the ignition module? Are you sure the module is correct? Did you try the old module? You may have gotten a defective coil, try the old one you know worked previously.
Changing a lot of parts introduces more problems that it may solve. I have had brand new coils be bad, and cause a miss I chased for a week. Put the old coil back in, and the miss was gond. Now, 190k later, the old coil is still there.
tom
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-27-2015, 10:20 AM
tobyw tobyw is offline
Senior User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Tri-Cities, WA
Posts: 319
tobyw is starting off with a positive reputation.
***UPDATE*** IT RUNS!!!

SUCCESS!!! Sort of...

After stripping out all of my temporary wiring and starting over using the Duraspark wiring diagram found here, I was able to get it to fire up and run for a good 20 seconds on a couple squirts of starting fluid! That's good enough for me right now, at least to assure me that the motor can/will run. However... Another issue has popped up. I went through (3) starter solenoids trying to get it to fire last night?? For some reason, I'm burning them out to where they will no longer click and send juice to the starter motor... I can jump between the "i" and "s" terminals, either with a screwdriver or a remote start button, and nothing... Verified it all with a test light, and no juice is passing through the solenoid. Burnt up (3) of them in a matter of about 15 minutes, with a total of maybe 3 turns of the key on each one?! One thing I found that concerns me is that I've got continuity between engine ground and the starter B+ terminal? I don't really know how or why, wiring isn't my strong suit at all, but I would think the B+ lug would be isolated from the rest of the starter body that is grounded via the bellhousing etc.???

Long story short, now I know the timing thing is handled but I'm stumped on simple wiring?! Thanks for any further help!!!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-27-2015, 12:16 PM
tomw tomw is offline
Postmaster
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: suburban atlanta
Posts: 4,706
tomw has a very good reputation on FTE.tomw has a very good reputation on FTE.tomw has a very good reputation on FTE.tomw has a very good reputation on FTE.
You will have continuity through the field windings. If it is the starter I remember, it has a tapered 'bump' on it which covers the movable 'shoe' that engages the bendix with the flywheel. The windings for that section of the field must be connected to ground, or the dang thing will never engage. The 'shore' also whams down on a 'bus bar' and a pair of contacts that close when the shoe is in place and the teeth of the fly/bendis are engaged. When that happens, bazooom, the armature turns, and turns the gear which turns the fly gear which turns the crankshaft.
If you have the starter removed, on the floor, and you connect with jumpers to a good battery, be prepared for spark and for the starter torque to make it try to roll away. Unless you have it firmly retained by a heavy foot, it WILL move.
So, you have to have continuity through the field. {and armature, brushes, and ..}
Are you sure the relay switch is the correct unit? Are they new or used? You can drill the expanded end of the rivets holding them together, take them apart, and inspect the contacts. Both of the terminal connectors and the bar moved by the relay 'core' should be a little burnt, but still have good contact surface areas. They can be 'flipped' or filed smooth for better contact.
If you have bad ground(s), corroded contacts, corroded terminals, or loose terminals, you may be providing less volts and more amps, causing things to get hot.
Check that the large black cable has no voltage drop from the battery terminal to +, and from the block to +, they should be close in the voltage measured. Same from ground terminal to +, and from ground terminal to the + term of the relay. The voltage should be very close, or you have a 'voltage drop' across a conductor(the black/red cables) which should be minimal at most, solely due to the resistance of the cables.
Is this the same starter from before all the 'things' happened? Did it work well before?
tom
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-27-2015, 02:04 PM
tobyw tobyw is offline
Senior User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Tri-Cities, WA
Posts: 319
tobyw is starting off with a positive reputation.
OK, so if I should have continuity between ground and the B+ lug on the starter, I can take that out of the equation... Which seems to leave bad ground(s) and/or bad cables. Right now, everything is temporary as I'm trying to get this motor running in the Jeep chassis before going any further with putting things back together. I am using the original Ford Ranger battery cables, which have the same ohm reading as when I just touch the two leads from my DVM together. My A$$umption with that was they are good cables, but ??? I have cleaned all cable ends and connection points so shiny metal, so I'm fairly confident the connections are good. I've got a ground cable from the battery to the engine block, and the postive cable from the battery over to the starter solenoid. The solenoid is grounded to the firewall (again scuffed to a shine), and the other lug of the solenoid runs down to the starter B+ terminal. Simple as that... I'll check to see what voltages are between the various connection points vs. just across the battery terminals and let you know... Thanks again!!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-31-2015, 02:01 PM
tobyw tobyw is offline
Senior User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Tri-Cities, WA
Posts: 319
tobyw is starting off with a positive reputation.
Got it figured out... was lacking ground at the solenoid After running a new ground strap from the head to the firewall, it all works as it should!!

Now I'm struggling with getting the Holley 5200 to idle, at all... It's acting like it's not getting vacuum through it to draw fuel. If it's not one thing, it's something else
Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help! 240 I6 rebuild. Trouble keepin it running. Flooding condition. Dustin_in_PDX 1973 - 1979 F-100 & Larger F-Series Trucks 6 10-14-2017 06:51 PM
1971 ford f250 360 Randall. 1967 - 1972 F-100 & Larger F-Series Trucks 7 06-13-2017 01:30 PM
1991 460/7.5L EFI broken down along the road...again **SOLVED** ExPACamper Big Block V8 - 385 Series (6.1/370, 7.0/429, 7.5/460) 30 04-13-2017 09:46 PM
1992 Ford F250 5.0 cranks but no start spectra99 1987 - 1996 F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks 5 01-25-2017 09:37 PM
390 ran rough, now not at all. smoky_diesel 1967 - 1972 F-100 & Larger F-Series Trucks 11 10-26-2016 12:26 PM


Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums >

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:52 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.