Yes, C6 and E4OD take the same yoke.

 

I thought about it after I wrote that last comment and realized you are correct, if you cut the yoke like you were planning, it would go together like it was originally intended to.

I looked up a 1989 f250 in OK and these are the choices it gave me. I don't know what type of transfers they are, but apparently it doesn't matter if they are f150 or 250.

1989 Ford Truck-F250 not Super Duty (1999 Down)
Transfer Case


slip yoke output, electronic shift
slip yoke output, manual shift
flange output

I selected the flange output and this is what it gave me for OK.

1988
Transfer Case
Ford Truck F250 140078 $300 D and D Salvage USA-OK(Clinton) Request_Quote 1-877-299-7398 Request_Insurance_Quote
1989
Transfer Case
Ford Truck F150 ON FLOOR(TIMMY) NOF $300 D and D Salvage USA-OK(Clinton) Request_Quote 1-877-299-7398 Request_Insurance_Quote
1989
Transfer Case
Ford Truck 150 Electric Shift Bolt on Yoke Output Misc $250 Poe Boys USA-OK(Tulsa) Request_Quote 918-425-4477 / 800-856-6292 Request_Insurance_Quote
1988
Transfer Case
Ford Truck F150 ON SHELF FLANGE TYPE 090276 $200 Checker Auto Salvage USA-OK(Lawton) Request_Quote 1-800-838-8697 Request_Insurance_Quote
1989
Transfer Case
Ford Truck F150 MANUAL SHIFT U-JOINT YOKE ON BOTH EN JOHNNY $200 R & S Auto Parts USA-OK(Moffett) E-mail 918-875-3770
1990
Transfer Case
Ford Truck F150 flange output-0MI 1016 $75 Stateline Trading Used Auto Parts USA-OK(Watts) Request_Quote 918-422-8829 Request_Insurance_Quote
1991
Transfer Case
Ford Truck 150 HSG BETWEEN 400 AND 412-COMPARE NOF $50 R & S Auto Parts USA-OK(Moffett) E-mail 918-875-3770

I then changed it to look up a 1989 f350 and it gave me no hits. That tells me the f350 is different, like you already know. But I think we can assume the f250 and f150 transfers were the same.

 

Well, I have lots to report. Let's see how I can condense this......

• Inland Truck Parts: I spent probably close to an hour with Jay, who patiently went through catalog after catalog, both online as well as paper copies. In the end here's what I learned:
  • There is an F250 front yoke for the BW1356, and it is E7TZ-7B214-B. It does take a single-Cardan u-joint, but the size larger (1 1/8") than the one in my drive shaft, which is 1 1/16". (I've since found that Fort Wayne Clutch has them for $122 plus tax and shipping.)
  • The full-sized Broncos had a rear fixed yoke, but it may have been for a double-cardan shaft like the front - he wasn't sure.
  • There were two sizes of rear seals for the 1356: 1.886", which would be the one in my t-case, and 1.685". But, a C6 takes a 1.685" seal, meaning a slip yoke for a C6 can be used. (Brandon - I missed this point when we talked earlier, so no bushing is needed.)
• Ryan @ Ryno 4x4:
  • The BW1356 had two problems - the oil pump and the rear bushing in the ones with a slip yoke.
  • He doesn't think that there is a slip-yoke eliminator kit for the 1356, but if anyone has it that'll be JB Conversions. I checked and they don't make one.
  • He agrees with Bob that I should use a drive shaft with single-Cardan joints on each end, not one with one single and one double.
  • He agrees with me that cutting the ears off the double-Cardan joint that I have would be much stronger than the little u-bolts used for most u-joints.
  • For parts, check with Dallas.
• Dallas:
  • He is very sure he has the F250 front yoke and is pretty sure he has the Bronco fixed rear yoke, but says it doesn't take a double-Cardon joint. I'll also need a different output shaft on the 1356 to take the fixed rear yoke, and I'll need the speedo housing. All up he'll sell me those parts for $200.
  • But, he rebuilds t-cases and he'll rebuild mine with those parts for $650 plus whatever additional parts are needed, like a chain, bearings, etc. The max price is $1050 if it needed everything.
  • But, why not use the NP208? He doesn't think the 1356 is any stronger, it just lasts longer. And he'll rebuild the 208 for about the same price.
• Harmon Four Wheel Drive: Brandon put me on to them, so I called and talked to them. But, they really want to see what I have, so I'm going down to see them tomorrow.

So, there is a way to put the 1356 in the truck, but it is going to cost more than I expected. In addition to the cost of having it rebuilt I'll have to have a new rear drive shaft built. So, I'm starting to question the wisdom of going with the 1356. However, my 208 has a crack in the case so I'll have to have it heliarced up if I want to use it, and then have it rebuilt - at about the same cost as the 1356. So, the additional cost is really the rear shaft vs the cost of repairing the 208's case. Hmmmm....

Thoughts??

 

From what I understand the F-250 and F-350 transfer cases were the same except for this annoying front yoke. And yes, it's a Dana 60 issue. If you swap a solid axle into an F-250 you need to put the F-350 front yoke on your F-250 transfer case. (Which brings up a possibility, if you can find someone swapping a solid axle into an F-250 they'll have the yoke you need, and they might still need the yoke you have!)

I don't know if F-150s used the 1356 transfer case or not.

As far as the slip yoke vs. U-joint yoke on the rear output, I'm guessing that was by model year. At some point they switched away from slip joints in the driveshaft and put them in the output shaft instead (I don't know the year). So if you can find an old enough 1356 it would have the rear U-joint yoke, otherwise they're probably all slip yokes.

And to confuse the issue more, some F-250s and F-350s used a different transfer case. My '97 F-250 has a 44-07 transfer case. I don't know if they use the same yokes as the 1356 or not.

 

Dave - Your note came out while I was typing mine. But thanks for the info. I'll try to get my head around it, but it may be that buying a used t-case would get me the parts for less than the $200 from Dallas. However, the complication is that, according to Dallas, the Broncos had a double-Cardan front shaft and yoke, and the single-Cardan rear shaft and yoke. So, I need the front yoke from an F150 or 250, and the rear yoke, shaft, and speedo housing from a Bronco.

Bob - Did my lengthy post combined with Dave's answer some questions? Or, had you read them when you posted? I'm just trying to put everything in context. Thanks for the help.

 

Gary, your previous post and my last overlapped. I hadn't seen yours until now.

As far as answering my questions, I don't really have questions (I'm not sure I really have answers either). I'm just trying to provide information that I think might be helpful to you as I think of it.

And I hadn't thought of the speedo, but yep, that'd need to be addressed putting a mid '90s t.case in an older truck. With the VSS on the rear axle there is no speedo pickup on the trans or t.case in the "newer" trucks.

I don't know much about the 208. I asked once when I was thinking about getting a t.case with lower gears for my J**p CJ-5. All I found out was "no one ever swaps a 208 into anything", which basically sounded like people didn't know what to tell me.

And to tell the truth, I don't know that much about the 1356 either, beyond the general stuff. As I said, my '97 F-250 (crew cab, 460, 4.10 gears) has a 44-07 t.case. Does that mean the 1356 isn't the strongest option? I don't know. From what I've read it's a good 'case (once the oil pump and maybe an issue with a shift fork(?) are dealt with). But if it costs a lot more to stick it in I'm not the one to tell you it's worth it.

 

The only thing I remember is some guys liked the 208 because the low range ratio is lower than a lot of transfers. And some guys liked the 1356 because it has a wider chain than the 208.

I have had both, and both gave me good normal service.

 

Thanks, guys. I'll go see Harmon tomorrow and, depending on what I find there, may call some of the places you found, Jim. Then I'll report back.

 

Ok, lots more to report & consider. So, I think I'll break this into two posts - one for the report and then another for the considerations or possibilities.

• Harmon's 4x4:
  • David agrees that it would take a Bronco 1356 to make this work with a single-Cardan front and rear without any adaptation.
  • But, he agrees that using the ears of the double-Cardan would clamp the single-Cardan bearing caps to the double-Cardan flange very nicely. In fact, he's seen that done.
  • He doesn't see anything wrong with using a slip yoke rear on the 1356. Yes, if you let the t-case run out of lube the rear bushing can be a problem, but otherwise the slip-yoke is fine on a longer wheelbase vehicle.
  • He says the 1356 is marginally stronger than a 208. It has an oil pump, which is a plus. And it has a better planetary system. But, the 208 would be very adequate unless you are towing heavy, like diesel tractors.
  • He has a Bronco 1356, as shown below, with fixed front & rear flanges. However, the rear flange then takes an adapter to accept the bearing caps. (Note: This moves the center of the bearing cap back to 18 1/2" from the front edge of the t-case, as opposed to the 208's 17". Since the rear shaft's splines have a 3" range of movement, this might not work.) He'll sell me that t-case for $450 and give me $100 for my t-case and $25 for my double-Cardan shaft, for a swap price of $325.
  • He'd sell me the parts (front yoke, rear yoke, rear shaft, and housing) for $200.
  • He'd swap the front yokes for $35, and sell his outright for $75.
• Lester's Gears:
  • They don't have any of the Bronco t-cases. But, they might have the yokes if I had an example of what I wanted. (What? If I had one why do I need another?)
  • Rebuilding: $150 labor & $125 for the kit, then whatever parts are needed beyond that

Here's a shot of the Bronco t-case. You can see that the front yoke uses u-bolts to retain the bearing caps. And, you can see the rear output flange. It isn't really a yoke because you either bolt a double-Cardan joint to it or a flange like is shown in the last pic.





Here's a closeup of the rear of the t-case showing the speedo output as well as the front of the output flange. (I wish I'd gotten a shot of the rear of the flange.)





And this is the yoke that takes a u-joint and can be bolted to the rear output flange.

 

I think I am getting lost as to what your choices are. Let's see if I get this correct;

You have a 208 that is cracked. Forget that. You have a 1356 that is good, so go with that.

If you cut the yoke off the double cardan shaft, you are good with the front shaft. So now you have the 1356 transfer and a front shaft setup that will work.

So the problem is the rear shaft. You will need one no matter what you do correct? I assume you do not have a proper fitting rear shaft at all? So you need to find a slip yoke rear shaft that will fit the rear slip yoke transfer, and stick it in place or get it modified for length and install it.

My truck as a rear slip joint transfer, I like it. No maintenance on a external splined shaft and I haven't had any problems with it.

If you are brave you can get a rear shaft and shorten it yourself. I think you said you had a lathe, do you have a steady rest for it? You can chuck the slip yoke up in the 3 jaw, set the steady rest up to ride on the driveshaft to support it, and let the rest hang out the back of the lathe(of course the u-joint is still in place). Go slow and take a cutter and cut the weld on the end of the shaft till it's all gone, and then take it out of the lathe and take a chisel and knock the insert out of the shaft.

Figure the best you can the length you need, put the shaft in a bandsaw and cut it off. Cut it as square as you can. Drive the insert back up into the shaft, and stick it in the truck to see how it fits.

If it fits good, put it back in the lathe, get a dial indicator, and get it set back up with the steady rest, and take a rubber deadblow and keep knocking it around till you get all the run-out out of it. Then while it's in the lathe put some rags over the ways and then spot weld it on opposite sides. Check the run-out again and if it looks good spot it in two other opposite places. If it still looks good go ahead and fill it in with weld all the way around.

You could take it to a shop to get it balanced if it needed it.

 

Dave - I can fully understand that you got lost - I did, and still am. Hopefully I can outline the possibilities here.

But first, let's talk about your suggestion of shortening the driveshaft myself. I certainly have the tools with which to do it, including a steady rest and follow rest. But, with everything else that has to be done on this truck, with my age taken into account, I think I'll hire it done. That's if it needs to be done - see below.

And that leads me to what I think the options are.

1. NP208: The crack in the case is minor and I know a guy that can heliarc it up for less than $50. So, for the price of labor, a rebuild kit, plus any needed parts once inside I can have it rebuilt. And the drive shafts have been rebuilt and will bolt right back on.
2. BW1356 w/slip yoke: As you suggested, I have a 1356 with a front yoke that I can use by modifying the center link of the double-Cardan joint. And I have a slip-yoke shaft that's too long and will need to be shortened - somehow. Rebuilding the 1356 will cost the same as rebuilding the 208, save for the $50 crack repair, so the difference would be the cost of the drive shaft less $50.
3. BW1356 w/fixed yokes: I've confirmed that there are both front and rear yokes available for the 1356 that take regular u-joints and they are retained by u-bolts. It looks like I can have a set of them as well as the necessary rear shaft and housing for $200. And that would let me use the newly rebuilt stock drive shafts.

If we take the cost of the transfer case rebuild out of the picture since that is said to be the same for either t-case, the 208 costs $50 for the case repair. The slip-yoke 1356 costs whatever the drive shaft mod costs, and I'll guess $150 to $200. And the fixed-yoke 1356 costs $200 for the yokes.

So, the question becomes which is the best approach? Is the 1356 worth about $150 over the 208? And, if so why not go with the approach that allows the stock drive shafts to be used?

 

Does the rebuild cost of the 1356 being roughly the same as for the 208 include dealing with the speedo pickup? Remember that the 1356 doesn't already have it. That could push the cost balance more in the 208s favor.

But then I think your estimate for the driveshaft cost might be a little high. Just over a year ago I had two shortened for $250 total.

But it sounds to me like you're leaning toward the 208. I don't think either is a bad choice, but I think I'd be leaning toward the 208 in your case too. A little less expensive to implement (although the cost difference is minor) and it lets you use your recently rebuilt driveshafts.

Although one more question. Maybe you already dealt with this and I forgot, but do you know the 208 will bolt right up to the ZF5? I'm not saying that I think it won't, just that I have no idea if it will or not. It'd sure be a drag to go through all the work and expense and find out it doesn't mate up.

 

My 1356 has a speedo pickup. So if I buy the yokes and have them put on my t-case I'll have it. Or, maybe I should say I think my speedo cable will go in there. It looks just like this one:



And, my drive shaft estimate might be high. Both of the shafts I have were rebuilt recently and they came in about $300 each. But that included new spline stubs and sliders on each, so shortening might be quite a bit less.

As for leaning, I'm actually wobbling. One minute it is 208 and the next it is 1356. But laying it out here has helped me see that there isn't a lot of difference in price. Midwest sells a rebuilt 208 for $600 and a rebuilt 1356 for a Bronco for $667. And one of those says it has Bolt Yoke Rear Output, so if that means it takes a single Cardon shaft then I might just go that way. No need to buy the $200 worth of parts and my shafts should bolt right up - with the only issue being the need to swap out the rear joint on the front shaft for one with a 1 1/8" cap.

But, I'm 100% sure the 208 will bolt up to the ZF5. It was bolted there when we drove from Okiehoma to Delawhere and back just over 2 years ago - right before I pulled the truck down for a restomod.

 

Gary, that is a speed sensor like used on the 87-91 trucks, and the cable plugs into it. I had one in the E4OD, just not hooked up. Now it has a blank plug in there.

 

Just for completeness, there are two different "fixed" outputs for the rear of a 1356 from a Bronco. (Pickups use a slip yoke.) One is the flange that requires an adapter, as in my previous pictures, and the other is a true yoke that takes a single-Cardan u-joint. Today I measured from the front of the 1356 w/the fixed flange & adapter to the center of the u-joint and found it was 18 1/2". Then I measured the NP208 and got 17". That's a problem as the travel on the splines of the rear shaft I have is just 3", so if the 208 had it dead center the 1356 would have it against the rear.

Given that I called David at Harmon's back and we guesstimated that the true fixed yoke would move the center of the bearing cap forward ~1" as opposed to the flange/adapter combo, and that would be just about right. But, guesstimating worried me so I did some searching and found some good info here (on FTE, wouldn't you know). That says that the 1356 puts the cap 1/2" further aft than the 208. (Maybe guesstimating isn't so bad after all?) Yippee! So, my original shaft will work with the Bronco's 1356.

Now to the front shaft. The Bronco 1356 also has a fixed yoke on the front, again as shown in my previous pic, but that yoke takes a 1 1/8" bearing cap as opposed to the 1 1/16" cap on my stock shaft. No problemo, change out the u-joint and it'll bolt right up. But, what about the length of the shaft? Turns out the post in the link above says the shaft needs to be 1/16" shorter for the 1356 as opposed to the 208. Close enough for me when there's 3" of splines.