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Guys - Bruno and I are needing to have our ZF5's rebuilt and are looking for two things:
Rebuild kit: We'd like to find a really good rebuild kit with good bearings and syncros.
Short Shifter: And, we'd like to revise the shift lever on the ZF to make it a bit less truck-like, something with a shorter throw.
Toward the rebuild kit quest, I contacted American Powertrain Warehouse and found that their bearings are made by Koyo and their syncros are produced in either Korea or Taiwan. But, he added, they are all produced in ISO 9001-certified plants. Well, that only means they have been certified to follow the process, which means they'll get the intended quality on a consistent basis. But, it says nothing about what the intended quality really is. So, I ask if anyone knows of a really good rebuild kit for the ZF5?
And, as said, we are thinking of changing the throw of the tranny to something somewhat shorter. Have any of you done that? Or had experience with them? I found this kit for $215 at Midwest Transmission Center:
When I talked with Chris there he said it doesn't change the detent or the lockouts at all. Which raises the question of why the DIY one wouldn't do the same? Thoughts?
I didn't have time to read through the DIY version, but at the start of it he says that he opted to remove the lockout. Maybe if you went all the way through it you'd figure out how you could opt to keep it, but on the surface it looks like the $215 version keeps that safety feature in place while the DIY one (at least as originally implemented) does not.
Also, at first glance buying the kit for $215 seems like a no-brainer to me. Trying to cobble stuff together that will seal up and all work correctly looks like it would take a lot more that $215 of my time. Of course if someone was a lot shorter on cash (or longer on time) than I am they'd make that trade-off differently.
Although it is a bummer that you need to send your stock ZF5 stub shaft in for modification. No biggie if it's a garage project, but it means you can't do the entire project in one day, instead you'll likely put your daily driver out of commission for a week or more.
I am looking forward to seeing how this all turns out. I'm eventually going to get a 5 speed in a truck. I've never driven a ZF5, but I had a ZF6 in my '08 F-250. That trans and the one the dealer replaced it with under warrantee were the two worst shifting transmissions I've ever driven (the only good thing about them was that they were so bad that Ford bought back that truck after I filed a lemon law claim). I've been a little gunshy of the ZF5 because of that experience, so anything that can be done to make it smoother will be very interesting.
I just spoke with my friend who is a Ford diesel specialist. When asked regarding the best source for ZF transmission rebuild kits, he said that he uses a local company with whom he has a high level of confidence.
Gary, considering the ZF is a German company one would think you could get good German innards for them. The Koreans have gotten pretty good lately, and I would much rather have something from Taiwan than mainland China.
Remember the SROD transmissions Ford made a few years ago? They were based on the toploader case. I had a friend with one that got so bad it would hang in 2nd, and you had to play with the clutch and throttle to get it loose. When I tore it down, the 1-2 syncro hub was badly worn where the sleeve rode, best Mexican quality, had a Rockwell B hardness of 80. It seems the forgot to heat treat a large batch, it was good metal, just not heat treated.
The short throw captivated me when I first saw it 5 or so years ago. Whitey makes a lot of power, but does better on the hwy in competition vs the street. He has trouble out running some of the autos because of the boat rowing (long boat rowing strokes) even though he can out power them. On the hwy or an on ramp where he just has to go through one gear he gives mustang and Camaro owners something to think about.
So the short throw could help redeem some of Whitey's self esteem on the streets. However, it could also get Whitey set down for some expensive repairs which have been taking money and time away from his little brothers project Jr. Such as, I ran the guts out of a Dodge like mine on North Peoria several months ago. I lit him up pretty good, but I had totally forgotten for the moment that Whitey was carrying 2500lbs of sand on the flat bed while I was doing this. Looking back that probably contributed to the rear end job I just did.
The short throw being a definite performance upgrade as well as one of those uncommon mods that Gary's generation likes made me think of Dad's Truck. It would certainly improve the shift and give it a more sporty feel rather than a tractor trailer feel where the driver feels like he should be double clutching and talking on the CB about "bears in the woods". Also, I was really hoping this could be done at his shop by him just to add another feather to his cap where he could tell others it has a short throw shifter that he made and installed. So the answer to the question is yes I was helping you spend money. Yes I want one, but...... the compressor just locked up in the Dodge again today. So I am beginning to think that the comment Bill Vose made about the multi pass condensers and how they have to be changed because they cannot be effectively flushed has some merit to it
Bob - I'm with you. I do like to make things, but I am trying to limit them to things not available elsewhere. One example would be the flywheel spacer I made to mate the ZF5 to an M/400. At the time it wasn't available elsewhere. But, the short-shifter is available and, if I put a short-shifter on, I think I'll go with an off-the-shelf unit.
David - Thanks, but in looking at Transtar's web site they don't list info for ZF5's. Maybe I missed it?
Bill - Chris at Midwest told me that since the transmissions are no longer being manufactured the original parts are no longer available. Or, maybe what he meant was what the guy from American Powertrain said - if they are available they are exorbitant.
Bruno - I'm leaning to going with Midwest Transmission. If you read the thread that the guy linked to in your thread in the Transmission forum you'll see that Midwest has a really good reputation. And, in reading that thread I discovered I talked with one of the gurus from there today - Chris. He knows his stuff and we had a good conversation. During that time I mentioned that the problem I have where it sometimes won't go into reverse is usually a problem with the 5th/reverse slider, and they have a kit to fix that problem. But, since it comes with the 5th & reverse syncros then I don't need all of the parts in the full rebuild kit, so they'll adjust there if need be.
Having said all that, their rebuild kit with full bearings, syncros, etc is $385. If I need the 5th/reverse kit that's $250. So I'm at $635 w/o labor. But they sell a fully rebuilt tranny for $1367. I guess I really need to think about whether to have Scotty do the rebuild or just buy a rebuilt unit. Can you find out what it is going to cost me/us there and text me?
Bruno - I'm happy to have the help, whether spending money or making something. So I truly appreciate it. And, I do want to clean up the shifting, so like the idea of a short-throw kit. See the previous post - maybe I have Midwest install it and ship me the tranny?
That is a tough decision. Midwest does have a good reputation. I know Scott and how he does things. Not at all saying that Midwest doesn't have a good builder or would short cut the rebuild, but I know how particular Scott is when it comes to gears. I would throw an entire build kit at it if it comes apart rather than just try repair what's wrong though. However, you may want to see if the 47 is available for your application rather than the 42. The 47 has the bigger synchros and is "considered" the better tranny of the two. Not that either one of those is a bad tranny when compared to their competitors NV or Getrag. I will see what Scott would charge, but I bet it would be around $400-$500. Add your $635 to that and you are Approaching $1,200.Now consider you might have a hard part that is bad in there or going South soon. That could add another $200-$300 on the parts bill real quick. Scott would warranty the build, but if he gets hit by a bus the day after he gives you your tranny then you really don't have a warranty anymore. Where Midwest will always have someone on staff to get you back together.
I wouldn't have anyone do mine, but Scott. However, that is just my personal opinion.Weigh the pros and cons. This gear referral really is better than the upholstery referral.
…This gear referral really is better than the upholstery referral.
I'd forgotten all about that. Apparently you haven't. But, you should.
Anyway, good points about the tranny. Please check to see what the price would be from Scott. And, what I'd like to do is to have him tear it down before I order parts. Then I can get the parts from Midwest ASAP so he can finish.
I've been buying parts from Midwest for years. They are really good to work with and I've never had any problems with them. I usually deal with Connie. Another place in the same city I've bought stuff from is ZBAG: Manual Transmissions, Differentials, Transfer Cases | ZBAG I'm not as familiar with them but the few times I've dealt with them they've been good as well.
Pay special attention the reverse gear area. I am not sure exactly what goes wrong, but mine and another one I have driven have reverse problems. You have to make sure it's fully engaged in reverse or it will pop out and grind. It's one of those things you get used to and can overcome, but if it could be fixed it would make the tranny better.
Rowdy - Thanks for the confirmation on Midwest, as well as the link to ZBAG.
Dave - What you described is part of the symptoms I have, and that's what their reverse repair kit is supposed to fix. So, I'm pretty sure that I need it.
Gary, one thing you have to remember. These European 5 speeds were originally designed for smaller, high revving relatively low torque engines in much lighter vehicles. You are old enough to remember Ford going to LeMans and ending up having to use the innards of a toploader in a transaxle, because none of the European boxes could handle the brute torque of the Holman and Moody NASCAR engine.
My friend, Donnie Medlin has had a number of the 5 speed OD boxes break in his wreckers, the worst one is a Chevy 3500 that had a Duramax in it. He bought the truck with a blown engine (imagine that) and put a Cummins in.
07-10-2015, 11:35 AM
So I am beginning to think that the comment Bill Vose made about the multi pass condensers and how they have to be changed because they cannot be effectively flushed has some merit to it 
