We are on our way out west for the winter and we have have put our new brakes to the test on Wolf Creek Pass, hwy 95 and 12 in Utah with up to 14% grades on hwy 12 and they are amazing. Unlike electric drum brakes whenever you check the hub temps by hand they are all the same so I know I'm getting even braking . I'm sold and will never have anything else.

Denny

 

Just had mine converted on our new Montana. Have about a 2 second delay and then they will grab and lock up if you want to. Why is there a delay? Need trailer brakes sooner , not 2 seconds later. Can travel a lot of distance before I get brakes, not safe in my opinion. Also, I did reset to elec/hydraulic. Thought something was wrong with Ford Integrated Brake Controller but dealer says "they all do that". In other words ....they don't know either. Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

Are you saying they always grab and lock up or is your concern with the delay?


Steve

 

What actuator do you have, I'm using a Dexter and yes there is a short delay but no longer than the electric had. The Ford controller brings the brakes on so smooth that you can't feel them unless you brake hard. If you are locking the brakes up you have the controller set to high, I have mine set at 7.5 and the only time I feel them is under hard braking, remember you are using a proportional controller so the brakes come on smooth so you can't feel them under normal braking.

Denny

 

I am concerned with delay. I have Titan system . Setting at 6-6.5. Just had installed 2 wks ago and did not like delay so took it to Ford to diagnose. They still have it. They are only plugging into trailer plug on back of truck with a small tool that only lights up. It does not give any reading. At least that is all they say they have done. They say trailer brake light on meter does not come on until bar graph on info screen in truck dash has 6 bars lit up. I mentioned the locking up part just to indicate to you that the new disc brakes definetly are working but after a 2 sec delay at 50-55 mph. That is a long time to have to wait for brakes. It's ok until I really need to make an emergency stop. If they are engaging I do not feel any resistance back there.

 

So you don't need more brakes, you just need them more quickly. I know you will experience a delay with hydraulics as the manufacturers I spoke with told me that when they first came out. I guess the question is how much is too much.


I can not address your problem directly as I do not have experience with that situation, but I do know that the Ford controller has some problem talking to some of the hydraulic systems. Since Ford is basically telling you there is a delay by the trailer system, I would do two things.


1. Call the brake system manufacturer and discuss your situation with them. They may have an idea.
2. Since it looks to me like you have a 6.7, I would also post on their forum here on FTE and see if any of them have an idea as a great many of them are towing. They may have experience with this issue.


Sorry I can't be more help, but don't throw up your hands yet. I suspect there is an answer for this somewhere.

 

When I was looking into actuators the Titan unit was the lowest price and it had the longest activation delay. So that may be some of your problem.

Also did they use steel lines all the way to each wheel with short hoses to the calipers or did they use the long rubber hoses instead of steel line. If they used the long hoses it takes time expand the hoses when pressure is applied.
Denny

 

Seems like a lot too much delay. Will see what Titan has to say. I kinda doubt they will admit that a 2 second delay is normal for their system as that may have an adverse effect on their sales. They did install a little box that they said was needed on some models but it also did not improve the delay. I won't surrender yet...have too big an investment here. Thanks so much to all. I love this forum because of those of you who know are willing to share with us who do not know...but are trying to learn.

 

They used steel lines all the way to wheels. Did a great job on install...very neat and all tied up firmly. Brakes work very well....but just too long of a pause. Installer now is talking to dealership. He can talk more intelligently on the subject than I can. Maybe they will come up with something. Installer did say he has had trouble with another 2012 SD and is also looking to solve his problem as well. He had just installed the other before mine.

How did you find out the activation delay from Titan. Is that info available on their web site?

Thanks

 

No the information wasn't available on their site but I did find a site that tested them. Unfortunately I didn't keep the information so I can't give it to you but one of the things I came up with is that you want the time from 0 to 800 psi not 0 to 1600 because most of the braking is in that lower range.

I didn't buy the fastest actuator because after doing research and taking to others it wasn't a reliable unit, I found no one that had problems with the Dexter unit. I read all the reviews on many sites and the Titan unit had a lot of negative comments and it's time delay was the biggest problem.

Denny

 

Maybe I should have done more research. Had no idea that there would be any delay, much less 2 sec.

Thanks

Live and learn!!!

 

Regarding delays from one actuator to another. There is an inherent delay because of the time it takes to build pressure from 0 psi to 200 psi.(200 psi is where you really start feeling the brakes. Carlisle & Dexter use a 3 piston pump that generates 38-42 cu. in. per min. while the titan uses a 5 piston pump that generates 70 cu. in. per min. This results in a .3 second response time for Titan. Carlisle & Dexter both show in their own literature a .8-1.0 second response time.
This lag is being masked by the new ibc's that ramp up voltage based on speed and brake pedal pressure. But, the lag is there. Never should it be more than 1 second. Even the electric brakes have a lag that is being masked by the controller. This has been proved in stopping distance testing by Tekonsha (Prodigy).

Pete's issue is a little different that the actuator comes on immediately (.3 sec) when the manual over ride is applied or when the breakaway switch is pulled. This tells us that from the trailer 7 way back the system is operating properly. It appears that whatever controls the ramp up voltage is not operating properly because we go from 1.1v (test voltage) to 6.5v, there is no 3v, 4v, 5v ramp up.

I have several 2012-2014 F350's that have no problem. One of these guys has agreed to let us video some testing for comparison on Pete's truck.

The challenge is getting Ford to admit there is a problem with the IBC, Transducer or software and diagnose which is not operating properly so we can replace it.

 

If you used electric brakes with this truck before and they worked without any problems try this. Set the controller back to the electric mode and take two drum brake magnets and strap them to the frame and wire them to the blue and white wires. The controller will think it's looking at drum brakes and it should work normally. Have done this with older GM controllers that won't work with hydraulic actuators.

Denny

 

Can't be 100% sure the brakes worked before. He had braking issues on his previous trailer and assumed the new trailer would have better braking. It didn't so I am assuming there has been an ongoing truck problem.
Ford finally agreed to replace the IBC. We will see if that corrects it. Problem is Ford is not diagnosing the problem just throwing parts at it.

 

If Ford can't do it, find an RV center that has a test box on the 20-foot plug and cord. Hook it up and go for a ride and you can watch what the controller is doing while you drive. The box emulates the trailer magnets and you can read amp draw and voltage at the seven pin.

Steve