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Question on AOD for 8BA

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Old Aug 2, 2015 | 09:14 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Flat Ernie
You keep using the term "kickdown" and are talking about running a 2100 with an auto. Bear in mind these kickdown linkages will not work with an AOD. Nor will a 'Ford' Holley with a kickdown linkage. The AOD needs a "pull" not a "push" as most stock non-AOD kickdowns are.

Lokar makes a kit, but requires some sort of linkage to PULL the cable. Ross suggested an extended throttle shaft for the 94 - speedway sells them for $15.99:

Ford/Holley 94 Extended Throttle Shaft - Free Shipping @ Speedway Motors

Use this and an arm like this:

Aluminum Throttle Linkage Arms - Free Shipping @ Speedway Motors

Then you can install the Lokar TV cable - you may have to fab/mod the carb side of the bracketry, but that shouldn't be a big deal. You want to have the TV arm attach point for the cable be a 1:1 movement of the throttle. So it will need to be the same distance away from the centerline of the shaft as the throttle ball is.
Well I'll be the first to admit that I don't quite understand this. As I said, I talked to Lokar and they said ...
We do offer a mounting bracket for our throttle and kickdown cables on a Ford 94 carburetor. We do not however make a provision for the kickdown on the carburetor. This is something that is absolutely critical to have right when using the AOD transmission. I would suggest that you contact a company that specializes in these style carburetors to find the kickdown provision. The part number for the bracket is TRP-4006 and the Kickdown Cable for the AOD is part number KD-2AODHT. You can purchase these items through any of our dealers. To locate a dealer near you go to Lokar Performance Products: 1-877-469-7440 or you may also call me at 877-469-7440 ext 8900 to obtain a referral and for any questions that you might have.

I emailed Vintage speed and didn't get a response, so I contacted Holley, they referred me to Daytona Parts, who ...
Sorry, but there is no 3bolt base carburetor that will fit your manifold that used a "kickdown" lever. You would need to find an adapter plate from the 3 bolt manifold to a normal 4 bolt holley base pattern, and then use a later style FORD 1965-1971 (Motorcraft) 2100 2bbl with the FORD kickdown lever on the throttle shaft.

Every search that I have tried to find a way to put a kick down on the 94 type carb, calls for multiple carbs.
 
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Old Aug 4, 2015 | 08:18 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by harleymsn

Every search that I have tried to find a way to put a kick down on the 94 type carb, calls for multiple carbs.
I gave you the links for an extended throttle shaft and an arm that will work.

Here is a picture to hopefully help illustrate the principle - it's a holley 4bbl, so I get it, it's not your carb, but look at the lower cable and the relationship between how the throttle linkage moves the TV cable.



TV cable is lower cable and is a LOKAR unit


Here is another pic to help illustrate the parts I linked to - it is a triple 94 setup and uses a progressive linkage - again not your situation, but these are the parts you need:



3x94 - note linkage on extended shaft. Rear carb has linkage setup that can work with AOD TV cable.


So you can buy the extended throttle shaft from Speedway I linked in my post above and install it in your carb base. It is a pain in the butt as the butterfly screws are staked and the throttle arm is pinned, but it is definitely a DIY type of job. Then you can install the throttle arm I linked to (just like the one on the rear carb of the 3x94 setup) and use that to operate the Lokar cable.

There is no requirement to run multiple carbs - it is the linkage. The extended shafts are NORMALLY used on multiple carbs, but can be installed in any carb.

I don't know why Lokar called the carb linkage a kick-down in their reply because the AOD does not use a kick down linkage, it uses a throttle valve cable - they are very different. I suspect it was laziness on the Lokar tech's part. But kickdown linkages designed for C4/C6/FMX DO NOT PULL, they PUSH and WILL NOT work with AOD at all (although I guess you could fabricate a bellcrank or something, but why?). So if you ask for a base with a kickdown provision from a supplier like Daytona, they will not be looking for the right part. Fortunately, they don't have it or you'd have bought the wrong thing. Ask them if they sell bases with extended shafts for use with multiple carb linkages instead...

The goal is to get a linkage on your carb that pulls a cable. There are a couple of ways to do this. I have offered you what I believe is the simplest and cheapest if you wish to retain the 94.
 
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Old Aug 4, 2015 | 09:42 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Flat Ernie
I gave you the links for an extended throttle shaft and an arm that will work.

So you can buy the extended throttle shaft from Speedway I linked in my post above and install it in your carb base. It is a pain in the butt as the butterfly screws are staked and the throttle arm is pinned, but it is definitely a DIY type of job. Then you can install the throttle arm I linked to (just like the one on the rear carb of the 3x94 setup) and use that to operate the Lokar cable.

There is no requirement to run multiple carbs - it is the linkage. The extended shafts are NORMALLY used on multiple carbs, but can be installed in any carb.

I don't know why Lokar called the carb linkage a kick-down in their reply because the AOD does not use a kick down linkage, it uses a throttle valve cable - they are very different. I suspect it was laziness on the Lokar tech's part. But kickdown linkages designed for C4/C6/FMX DO NOT PULL, they PUSH and WILL NOT work with AOD at all (although I guess you could fabricate a bellcrank or something, but why?). So if you ask for a base with a kickdown provision from a supplier like Daytona, they will not be looking for the right part. Fortunately, they don't have it or you'd have bought the wrong thing. Ask them if they sell bases with extended shafts for use with multiple carb linkages instead...

The goal is to get a linkage on your carb that pulls a cable. There are a couple of ways to do this. I have offered you what I believe is the simplest and cheapest if you wish to retain the 94.
Ernie, I appreciate your patients in explaining this to me. I thought that I had understood what I needed until I asked for some guidance from Lokar, but their response really confused me, and made me think it needed two different cables. As I said before, my knowledge on this subject is that of a moron, which is why FTE is such a valuable asset to me.
After reading your post and finally understanding what I really need, and how to do it, I had some concerns with being able to install the parts as you suggested. As I understand it, I would need to remove the base and the current rod and butterflies, redrill the base all the way through to the other side, then install the new rod, pin it and reinstall the butterflies, reattach the linkage on one side and the new arm on the other side.
Out of curiosity I was able to reach Charlie Price at Vintage Speed this morning. I explained to him what I needed to do and asked about the aluminum base that Ross had mentioned. He suggested that he could do it with an original steel base for about $30 less. Of course that means about $30 to do it myself or about $100 to get it from him.
 
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Old Aug 4, 2015 | 04:40 PM
  #34  
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Find an 8BA truck carburetor (or just the base) with the long shaft for the hand throttle cable. Then you won't have to drill out the side of your carburetor base. Make sure to NOT get the older carburetor with hand throttle linkage since the base lacks the vacuum passage for your distributor. Removing the throttle shaft is annoying but very do-able.

Here is the type of carburetor you need (not this one though, it is hilariously high priced)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-OEM-FORD-USA-V8-Truck-PICKUP-1948-52-8RT-9510-F-94-CARBURETOR-F-1-2-3-4-5-6-/141511993939?hash=item20f2c5aa53&vxp=mtr
 
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Old Aug 4, 2015 | 05:16 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by 38 coupe
Find an 8BA truck carburetor (or just the base) with the long shaft for the hand throttle cable. Then you won't have to drill out the side of your carburetor base. Make sure to NOT get the older carburetor with hand throttle linkage since the base lacks the vacuum passage for your distributor. Removing the throttle shaft is annoying but very do-able.

Here is the type of carburetor you need (not this one though, it is hilariously high priced)
Yeah, DC has new ones for $300.

V-8 Carburetor - New | Dennis Carpenter Ford Restoration Parts
 
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Old Aug 4, 2015 | 05:28 PM
  #36  
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I have an ECC 2110 base with the extended shaft for manual throttle. It has larger bores than a 94 and has a spark control valve, but otherwise directly replaces the 94's throttle section. I don't see any way an arm attached to the short stub for the throttle cable would clear the bowl, but replacing the throttle shaft would be a snap.


 
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Old Aug 4, 2015 | 05:31 PM
  #37  
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Since I am probably months away from doing the transmission, I will probably try drilling mine and installing the new rod. If I screw it up I can always just get another base.
 
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Old Aug 5, 2015 | 03:16 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by harleymsn
After reading your post and finally understanding what I really need, and how to do it, I had some concerns with being able to install the parts as you suggested. As I understand it, I would need to remove the base and the current rod and butterflies, redrill the base all the way through to the other side, then install the new rod, pin it and reinstall the butterflies, reattach the linkage on one side and the new arm on the other side.
There is no need to "...redrill the base all the way through to the other side..." Unless yours isn't drilled all the way through? All the 94s I've had were...but there were so many variations, who's to say.

Originally Posted by harleymsn
... Charlie Price at Vintage Speed ... He suggested that he could do it with an original steel base for about $30 less. Of course that means about $30 to do it myself or about $100 to get it from him.
Time is money. How much is your time worth? How confident are you that you can do it in a reasonable time? It may well be worth it to have Vintage Speed provide a base...see if he'll throw in an aftermarket throttle arm for the other side (the side you need the AOD cable on).

Ross has the base that will work...
 
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Old Aug 5, 2015 | 05:18 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Flat Ernie
There is no need to "...redrill the base all the way through to the other side..." Unless yours isn't drilled all the way through? All the 94s I've had were...but there were so many variations, who's to say.


Time is money. How much is your time worth? How confident are you that you can do it in a reasonable time? It may well be worth it to have Vintage Speed provide a base...see if he'll throw in an aftermarket throttle arm for the other side (the side you need the AOD cable on).

Ross has the base that will work...
The price from Charlie does include the aftermarket throttle arm.
 
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Old Aug 5, 2015 | 05:21 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Flat Ernie
There is no need to "...redrill the base all the way through to the other side..." Unless yours isn't drilled all the way through? All the 94s I've had were...but there were so many variations, who's to say.
I believe all Truck models were drilled all the way, but Cars weren't. I had a Car base that was drilled all the way but sealed with a plug, too.


Time is money. How much is your time worth? How confident are you that you can do it in a reasonable time? It may well be worth it to have Vintage Speed provide a base...see if he'll throw in an aftermarket throttle arm for the other side (the side you need the AOD cable on).

Ross has the base that will work...
My concern with DIY drilling is that it needs to be very accurately drilled or the butterflies won't seat square. I wouldn't try it with a good drill press, that's Bridgeport work. The hole needs to be reamed to final size, too, and if the existing hole is not tight, then it needs to be a .003" O/S shaft and reamed to that. Vintage is offering a lot for that money.
 
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Old Aug 5, 2015 | 05:25 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by ALBUQ F-1
My concern with DIY drilling is that it needs to be very accurately drilled or the butterflies won't seat square. I wouldn't try it with a good drill press, that's Bridgeport work. The hole needs to be reamed to final size, too, and if the existing hole is not tight, then it needs to be a .003" O/S shaft and reamed to that. Vintage is offering a lot for that money.
That was my concern about trying to drill it myself.
 
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Old Nov 18, 2015 | 01:05 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by harleymsn
OK, so I am going to use an AOD behind the stock flathead, but need some help here from somebody that has a similar setup.
I am good to go on linkage etc., Lokar has the throttle cable setups BUT the original carb does not have a provision for the kick down. Lokar says they have nothing to take care of that and suggest check with the carb folks?
I found that edelbrock has kick down parts but they are all for multi-carb setups.
Am I going to be forced to change manifold and carb to make this work?
Joe,
How are you coming with your AOD conversion? I'm looking at changing to an automatic also although a T5 would be about $1,000 cheaper. I'm looking at a 4R70W.
 
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Old Nov 18, 2015 | 01:21 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by petemcl
Joe,
How are you coming with your AOD conversion? I'm looking at changing to an automatic also although a T5 would be about $1,000 cheaper. I'm looking at a 4R70W.
I haven't really done anything on that part yet, I'm still working on the IFS.
 
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Old Nov 18, 2015 | 05:41 PM
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I have considered the same thing, but have not done anything as I think the AOD will eat up a lot of horsepower, of which we have little.
 
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Old Nov 18, 2015 | 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Skalywag
I have considered the same thing, but have not done anything as I think the AOD will eat up a lot of horsepower, of which we have little.
The AOD does use a little more power than the C4 but I think the OD makes up for it.
 
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