Hoping for some help here before I start in.

My '87 F150 5L/302 135K mi was running and starting great after changing timing chain, crank and cam sprockets, valce cover gaskets and upper intake gasket. Then I added a fuel injector cleaner to the rear tank and about half way through that tank of gas it started to start hard after sitting overnight or all day at work. By start hard, I mean take two to three tries, and when it fires it might stall when first put into gear. If the engine had been started within the past, say four hours, no problem restarting.

I have no idea if the fuel injector cleaner is related or just coincidence. I ran that tank out and the fron, and now am half way through fresh gas in the rear tank and no change.

I pulled KOEO and continuous codes today and only got a 33 [EGR valve not opening (PFE and sonic)]. Does anyone know if this could be related to the hard cold start? And what are PFE and sonic?

I did not do the engine running test since this is a starting problem - does that makes sense?

Thanks for any help.

Steve W

 

Sounds like the same problem i've been experiencing. see my posts at 96 5.0 L won't start early mornings. i haven't resoved it but you can see what i've done so far. let me know if you solve it.

 

My 1988 acts the same, I was told to turn the key on and off a couple of times to let the fuel pump build up pressure and it would start, didn't help mine. I have gotten used to starting it twice, because other then that it runs fine.

 

fishin4x4 -
I looked at your thread and while somewhat similar symptoms, not the same I suspect. I don't think it is moisture - - this truck is normally garaged and moisture is not the problem. I also replaced plugs, wires, cap and rotor a few weeks ago with no fix. And simply waiting till 10 am or later has no effect. I also get code 33, which is a bit mystifying to me what the EGR might have to do with starting?

John G -
Your case sounds more similar. I also read previous threads suggesting multiple pump up but that also has no effect (i've turned the key on just to pump as many as five times). What starts it is cranking about three tries, or one or two reallly long ones. After that, runs fine. Let me know if you find a likely answer.

thanks

Steve W

 

I've got the same problem. The way I deal with it is right before starting the first time, I pump the gas 3 times and flood the carb, then as soon as she starts on the first try, I give some gas and keep the RPM at around 3000 for a minute, then let her run for a few minutes till warm. Then she's good to go and no more stalling for the rest of the day (unless sitting for 4+hrs). I've replaced a bunch of parts too and even the fuel pump. But I have a feeling the carb may need a rebuild soon...

 

Have you checked the fuel pressure at the rail?
Maybe a fuel filter?

I had a Chevy truck with a carb that would do this. Debri was in the filter and would clog it every time I shut it off. After several attemps to start the debri would get pushed out of the way and it would start.

I replaced the filter and it never did it again.

 

jeepin -
This is an EFI (sorry I didn't mention earlier) so the only pumping I do is with the key.

90f150moneypit-
I changed the filter a few weeks ago and no luck with the problem. I haven't a pressure gage to test the fuel rail pressure yet.

Today I erased the continuous code and after running it, the continuous code 33 was gone. I then ran the Engine Running test and got codes 33 and 13. So still the EGR valve not opening and the IAC invovlved?

-Steve W

 

I would change the fuel filter. You didn't mention cleaning the idle air bypass vavle, I would clean that also. With all that stuff done the only other thing I can think of is turn the key on and wait for the fuel pump and the click sound before you turn the key to start it. If I just jump in and turn the key all the way to start it take a couple times to start it but, it never runs and then dies. These are just some things that might make it work better for you.

EGR - Every few years I remove my EGR valve, throttle body and clean where the EGR blows through the intake. It gets very carbed up and plugged. I stuff a couple towels in the intake just past where you have to clean, cover the throttle body and chip all the carbon out with some picks and cleaner. I suck out all the debris and when I am all done I pull the towels out then suck it out one more time, wipe the cleaner out before you vacuum. I also clean the throttle body with some brushes and cleaner. It usually gets a couple more MPG's on the hi-way. You may want to test the EGR sensor that sits on top of it also, it may be bad. This may help, and maybe with the 90 model year get rid of the EGR code and CE light if it is installed. *Don't squirt (TB/Carb cleaner) in the EGR itself! They have a rubber diaphram that will distort and break up inside. You will want to pick up a new EGR gasket and TB gasket before you do this also, they are cheap.

On my 87 I have always gotten the EGR code since it was brand new with 2 miles on it. A Ford tech told me the computer program was written to take the EGR reading to fast and I would never be able to fix the CE light problem. I later read this in a computer book so maybe the guy wasn't just making stuff up. I never worried about it since then. I haven't put the CE light bulb in since my Mass air conversion and new engine. My 91 Mustang has always worked great and I plan to put the bulb in one of these days. I need to lube my speedo cable so I will do it then.

 

tripndrag-

Thanks for the suggestions. I always turn the key and let the fuel pump run before cranking, so I don't think that will do it on its own.

But I just got in from cleaning the IAC or idle air bypass valve. We'll see in the morning how it starts cold. I did the voltage and resistance checks on the IAC. Resistance was fine. Voltage from the PCM was 11.7 but Haynes says it should be about 10.5.

Does anyone know if that is a problem?

When I replaced the valve cover and upper intake gaskets about two months ago I cleaned the upper air manifold including the carbon deposits at the EGR ports. I will check the EGR next itself.

Your comment "... and CE light if it is installed" is of interest. A few weeks ago I tried per the Haynes manual to pull codes using the CE light, but it never flashed. So I pulled the instrument panel to replace the bulb, but there was no bulb or wiring for that or for Engine Warning (though the cluster cover has the words in colored laminate of some type where the empty bulb sockets are. Why are some wired for these lights and some models not? I have a separate "Emissions" light in a different part of the instrument cluster, which is wired and flashes briefly when starting up.

-Steve W

 

I had almost the same problems after putting in some injector cleaner, but mine ran sort of rough too. Anyway a 30 year vet Ford mechanic told me to mix techron injector cleaner 50/50 and run it through. Then add a techron bottle to the next tank. It cured it. He said that the extra O2 from a partially plugged injector will give the O2 and then the EGR codes sometimes. It fixed mine. It's worth a shot, easy enough and cheap enough.

 

The reason I said that is because before I bought my pickup new, it had 2 miles on the odometer, I asked the dealer to fix the CE light that was on when I test drove it. After it was all purchased and I got home I took out the cluster to see if they had just pulled the bulb and it was gone. I went to another dealer because I thought I was getting ripped off and they told me the computer program was set to sample the EGR, or something to do with that, to fast so it appears it has a failed and your computer then has a code and turns the CE light on. I wouldn't be to concerned with EGR codes from your 87 but anything else I would pay attention. I replaced the EGR, the module on top of it and the O2 sensor at 120K miles, erased the codes and still got the 33. I did get better gas mileage though.

You can always use a needle gauge type volt/ohm meter to pull your codes. Just look at the needle sweep as a CE light flash. The little readers with a beaper and led are really cheap now also and they come with a good book explaining how to perform the tests and what all the codes mean, that would be the best way to go.

Does your cluster have the the printed circuit sheet around all the holes? If so all you need is the plastic holder and bulb. I know one of the bulb holders has a resistor on it but I am not sure which one it is. If you see one of these on yours then you can just go to the junkyard and look throught the instrument clusters for most any Ford car and grab one of the bulb holders. If the holes don't have the circuit sheet around them with the contacts for the bulb then you stumped me. I would think all the 87's should have the CE light connected to work in the cluster.

 

tiap-
What do you mean by mix 50/50 and run it through? Assuming you mean a samll amount 50/50 with gas, run it through how?