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I'm tired of the rough ride of my truck. Anybody know anything about a possible leaf-coil spring swap. im thinking about weather the axle can be re-used of my truck. I see the brackets that are bolted onto the frame which connect to the leaf assembly, and I was wondering if the later coil assembly would bolt on there and onto my axle ?.
To re-use your axle, I think you might have to look at coil conversion aftermarket kits. I recall one has a parallelogram 5 link design, similar to Dodge's older design. But note that Dodge recently copied Ford and converted to a long radius arm 3 link design.
To use Ford's 2005-up long radius arm 3 link set up, you would need a 2005 up axle. The other 2005 up Ford hardware will bolt up to your 2004 frame, however, keep in mind that Ford added two new and presumably essential strengthening gussets behind the engine crossmember when they changed to the long radius arm coil spring design.
In a press release from 2004, Ford included a sentence about testing of this new suspension on the original frame, and Ford found they needed to strengthen the frame in this area to prevent frame failure with the new suspension system.
Here is a photo of the 2005-up front frame enhancements made for the transition from leaf springs to coil springs. The new elements are painted red, and most of them are bolt on. However, the critical new frame strengthening gusset I'm referring to is welded and riveted into place. You can see it in the very top of the photo, toward the left. The frame enhancement essentially boxes in the C channel frame for almost a foot aft of the engine crossmember. It ties the upper and lower flanges of the C channel together, and the web of the gusset is welded to the engine crossmember.
That little gusset appears to significantly enhance frame stiffness to prevent crack initiation and frame tear from the articulating coil spring design terminating right there at the axle. With leaf springs, the stress is distributed forward and beyond the engine crossmember, as the leaf spring itself bridges the crossmember and connects to the frame much further forward, at the front frame horns. With the new coils, the front anchorage point is right there at the coils and axle, which is right where that new gusset has been added.
Thank you so much for the link and information W2K57!!!! WIll definitely reinforce the frame when we yank the body off to finish this project!
Are those new drop down hangers at the very front to bolt up the sway bar?? no, i see the sway bar in black it appears to bolt up in about the same location as the existing 2wd sway bar brackets.. I have other issues going on with the axle that may be causing my sway bar not to align correctly....
Thank you so much for the link and information W2K57!!!! WIll definitely reinforce the frame when we yank the body off to finish this project!
Are those new drop down hangers at the very front to bolt up the sway bar?? no, i see the sway bar in black it appears to bolt up in about the same location as the existing 2wd sway bar brackets.. I have other issues going on with the axle that may be causing my sway bar not to align correctly....
The drop down hangars at the very front of the frame are for the Blocker Beam. Prior to Ford's switch to coil springs, the Blocker Beam was attached to the bottom of front leaf spring hangars with additional brackets. Now that the front spring hangars were no longer needed, Ford still had to position the Blocker Beam at the same height off of the ground, to meet federal requirements.
The Blocker Beam was invented to meet this then relatively new Federal requirement that was imposed after the Super Duty was already designed. The lowered add on bar was to prevent the trucks from missing the bumpers and crumple zones of smaller passenger vehicles. The idea was that the lower placed beam might stop the truck from plowing over the top of smaller vehicles, thus helping to prevent the smaller car's passenger occupied greenhouse from getting crushed.
When General Motors introduced their GMT800 platform of trucks in 1999, they also introduced Hydro-forming to the light truck frame industry on the largest scale ever done. Since then, hydroforming truck frames has become common place in light truck frames, and is now the industry standard. Ford followed suit in 2008 by hydroforming the boxed front rail section of the Super Duty frame.
Hydroforming enables steel tubes to be formed into more complex, deeper drawn shapes. By incorporating a deep and steep drop in the front frame rails forward of the front axle, Ford was able to eliminate not only those drop down hangars you are asking about... they were able to eliminate the entire Blocker Beam itself, and just rely on the front bumper, as the frame horns that mount the front bumper became low enough to meet Federal standards with the hydroformed front frames of 2008 forward.
The front sway bar to the new axle is anchored ahead of the front axle in the coil spring suspension, as opposed to aft of axle in the leaf spring suspension. Don't forget that you might need a new steering gear, because the steering gear on the leaf spring suspensions is calibrated for less wheel cut then many of the coil spring suspensions have.
I haven't driven a newer, coil-sprung Superduty. But, my previous truck was a 94 Dodge 2500. It did not ride any smoother than my leaf spring Superduty. The Dodge was in top-notch shape; it rode better than I had expected a 3/4 ton truck would. I had assumed that my Superduty would ride a little harsher, but it actually doesn't.
I say all of that to express that this conversion may not produce a ride that justifes all of the work and expense. Have you ridden in a newer truck, to judge the difference? It may be highly noticable; as I said, I don't know. But, my first thoughts would be that it is a lot of work and money for very little gain.
I'm with hodge5 on this one, I have a 04 F350 that only had for some odd reason the 4400lb front springs and even with that it rose ok.. I installed pro comp 22210 front diesel 2" level springs and it rides the same maybe a little better over rough bumps, now I've driven a 2006 F350 dually reading body, a 2008 f250 crew long bed diesel, 2007 f250 reg cab gas motor and non seemed to be any better riding than my 2004 with leaf springs. Only thing the rears were smoother in certain bumps but not when loaded. My 04 stays higher under payload and rides better when loaded than the newer trucks I've been in...
My stock spring 2000 v10 Ex rides TERRIBLE! it is terribly undersprung in the front, bottoms out on every trip to town once or twice, and acts like the rear axle has its own steering wheel. Almost anything would be better.
My stock spring 2000 v10 Ex rides TERRIBLE! it is terribly undersprung in the front, bottoms out on every trip to town once or twice, and acts like the rear axle has its own steering wheel. Almost anything would be better.
How many miles on your truck?
It sounds like you have problems that don't have anything to do with it being leaf-sprung. Worn springs, someone has changed something, bad shocks, abuse, etc. I know that the Excursion is heavy, but I know two friends who have them, one a diesel, and they don't bottom out. My dad and I both own Superduty's, we've towed heavy, and have never bottomed out.
Something is seriously wrong with your front end if it bottoms out every time you drive it.
That doesn't reflect on the system, it reflects on condition.
The Ex's have the lowest spring rate available by Ford, it's very common for the front to bottom out and the rear just sways and sags just as bad. Go to the Ex section and there are tons of spring upgrade threads, most common being x-code front & modded B rears
The drop down hangars at the very front of the frame are for the Blocker Beam. Prior to Ford's switch to coil springs, the Blocker Beam was attached to the bottom of front leaf spring hangars with additional brackets. Now that the front spring hangars were no longer needed, Ford still had to position the Blocker Beam at the same height off of the ground, to meet federal requirements.
The Blocker Beam was invented to meet this then relatively new Federal requirement that was imposed after the Super Duty was already designed. The lowered add on bar was to prevent the trucks from missing the bumpers and crumple zones of smaller passenger vehicles. The idea was that the lower placed beam might stop the truck from plowing over the top of smaller vehicles, thus helping to prevent the smaller car's passenger occupied greenhouse from getting crushed.
When General Motors introduced their GMT800 platform of trucks in 1999, they also introduced Hydro-forming to the light truck frame industry on the largest scale ever done. Since then, hydroforming truck frames has become common place in light truck frames, and is now the industry standard. Ford followed suit in 2008 by hydroforming the boxed front rail section of the Super Duty frame.
Hydroforming enables steel tubes to be formed into more complex, deeper drawn shapes. By incorporating a deep and steep drop in the front frame rails forward of the front axle, Ford was able to eliminate not only those drop down hangars you are asking about... they were able to eliminate the entire Blocker Beam itself, and just rely on the front bumper, as the frame horns that mount the front bumper became low enough to meet Federal standards with the hydroformed front frames of 2008 forward.
The front sway bar to the new axle is anchored ahead of the front axle in the coil spring suspension, as opposed to aft of axle in the leaf spring suspension. Don't forget that you might need a new steering gear, because the steering gear on the leaf spring suspensions is calibrated for less wheel cut then many of the coil spring suspensions have.
It'd be cheaper just to buy Sulastic shackles. I've heard a lot of good things bout them. They got them for the front and rear. Sulastic.com is the website I believe.
I'm tired of the rough ride of my truck. Anybody know anything about a possible leaf-coil spring swap. im thinking about weather the axle can be re-used of my truck. I see the brackets that are bolted onto the frame which connect to the leaf assembly, and I was wondering if the later coil assembly would bolt on there and onto my axle ?.
Just buy sulastic shackles. Heard a lot of good things bout em. Im buying em for my truck soon
Just buy sulastic shackles. Heard a lot of good things bout em. Im buying em for my truck soon
Those seem like a simple, logical solution, but wow they aren't cheap. They look like any old rubber engine or suspension bushing. Are they liquid filled? (I couldn't get half the website to load.)
My concern would be longevity and sudden failure leaving you stranded.
