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After two years (or was it three?) of constant wrench, fail, wrench, find a new problem, wrench, fail, etc... I had to give myself a time-out. I looked in the armory and the room had a lot of echo to it, with a couple of Buck$Zooka rounds under a handful of Quarter Caliber rounds - yet more testimony for the need for rest from this project. I parked Stinky after Christmas and drove "Stingy" (the P'us) in the snow and hauled 10-foot-long pipes, uni-strut, and lumber up the river or home to work. I must admit, that Prius can step up, but it's not the same. Case in point:
I can floor Stingy in the snow, and she just automatically adjusts the torque to maintain good traction and control. This is counter to Stinky, in that flooring him in 4X4 just rips a long hard permagrin run until I get up to highway speed. Both vehicles have full control at WOT in the snow, but one puffs up my chest - guess which one.
So... I got up to the count of 3.285, and the dishwasher gave out. I can fix it, but one look in there told me our antique dishwasher was due to be replaced, not repaired. Taking measurements, I figured Stingy couldn't handle the box a new dishwasher would come in (I was that determined to not use Stinky).
So... after about 6 weeks of sitting in the weather with the OBDLink MX plugged in the OBDII port and not having Stinky plugged in or on the charger - I turned the key for the first time. Batteries looked good with the GPR active and plenty of time passed to warm up the cylinders, so I cranked it over. Vroom! It was as if the long nap never happened. It took mere seconds for me to recognize that bad #2 injector again, and I need to send in my 9th injector for repair before I can swap it out.
To be clear: There was nothing wrong with the injectors until my failed Hutch mod fed them with air and damaged them! I've had a heart-to-heart talk with Ryan Casserly at FFD, and I let him know this problem is on me. He's going to repair my last two damaged injectors, and we are going to work out a price for these and a few others I had to swap because of the same problem. He had been covering them under warranty until now, but I can't digest the thought of taking food from his family's table because of my mistakes - so I'm going to make this right by him.
To me, this is a clear demonstration of how getting the right vendor for sticks is so important, and I'll vouch for Full Force Diesel. This is not to say there aren't other good vendors out there [LINK], but it's a great example of what to expect from a reputable vendor.
In summary - I'll be addressing the stick and Buck$Zooka issues. I will again have the patience to pop those VCs one more time (the count for this now exceeds 30) - and start enjoying the fruits of my time, trials, tribulations, and treasure thrust upon Stinky.
To those who endured this lengthy read, here is one thing I hope to convey: When the truck gets stubborn, don't let it take away your sanity like it did mine. Walk away, find a distraction, and give your head a chance to coast to a manageable velocity. I re-wired the garage for improved lighting, fixed my wife's jeep, cleaned my "cubicle" (the computer table), and sorted my possessions to sell, donate, gift, or toss (downsizing). I've amassed a lot of patience and Buck$Zooka ammo ($143 for fuel in all of January and February looks to be the same) with this powerbreak, and Stinky will be out of the dog house soon.
Tugly and others: Whoa! Can you explain or provide a link to a thread where you discuss your "failed Hutch mod" ?
On the subject of air in the filter, I have always wondered, if instead of air being introduced into the fuel by leaky quick disconnects, whether or not "cavitation" of the fuel in an inappropriate pre-pump filter could be causing the air bubbles in the fuel.
That is why I went with the Racor PS120-2 specifically designed diesel pre-pump "strainer."
Since you are a sailor (I am or, when I had more time, was a windsurfer ... "Would that it were, would that it were...") you are likely familiar with the phenomenon called "cavitation" where air bubbles are not introduced into a liquid but come out of the liquid when the liquid flows over a rough surface.*
In windsurfing a fin with a burr or a nick can cause cavitation around the surface of the fin. And cavitation can cause some spectacular crashes. Like when you are planing near 30 mph just zipping along on a beam reach and instantaneously the fin loses lateral resistance and the board spins 90 degrees to straight downwind flipping the sailer over the bars and onto his back into the sail because, as we know, from whitewater kayaking, whitewater is white because it has air in it - like whitecaps, like river rapids (current over rocks), like snow, and water which is infused with air is less dense than greenwater. (Racers are meticulous with their fins treating them like their eyeballs, avoiding if at all possible or repairing any nicks or burrs.)
So, I want to know about your failed Hutch mod and I want to hear your thoughts on the possibility of fuel cavitation actually causing the air bubbles, and if an inappropriate "filter" could be causing the cavitation.
*I think current caused cavitation may be different than heat caused cavitation which the IDI's suffered from when engine coolant without sufficient SCA's hits the back side of the piston cylinder sleeves.
This thread has caught my attention. Like so many others, I too have also done the Hutch mode and had added a spinoff pre filter that had been suggested in so many of the other threads. Ever since I did this mod, I started running into several issues with the truck. The biggest issue I'm down to right now is low compression in a few cylinders causing high crank case pressure. I have always wonder if a damaged injectors could allow the pressure from the cylinder escape back into the crank case. Maybe I'm just wishing for the easier fix and don't really want to believe I have bad rings or other issues but with only 156K on the engine (and yes it's been maintained) I just can't hardly believe I have engine wear this bad.
I doubt attempting this will move my stress needle in the desired direction....
I about died on that one. Still cleaning the milk out of my nose, keyboard, and screen.
Very clever use of the P'us upper "gin" box.
Failed Hutch mod: The single fuel injector hose clamp on the fuel line where it connects to the tank didn't seal the line. I added a second hose clamp, so now I have one inside the quick-connect ridge and one outside of that. My fuel pressure used to dip to 40-45 PSI at WOT, now I never see anything less than 55 PSI.
Cavitation - yup. That's what got me. Normal air bubbles would escape out the pressure regulator on the fuel bowl, but cavitation "froths" the fuel. This makes tiny bubbles in the fuel that doesn't separate out quickly enough before entering the fuel rail, so the Stink-N-Rich research and development team has learned #2 and #7 injectors get first froth. The early symptoms are a knock when the froth is present, but it goes away. As the problem persists, the knock grows in duration and audible volume, until it eventually never ceases.
Once the permanent knock is there and the problem has yet to be resolved, the injector starts to have flow or atomization problems - I'm not sure which. I just know I get a fueling imbalance and smoke. Swapping out the damaged injector has immediate positive results - only to start the cycle over until the air-in-fuel is resolved.
As it stands, I swapped out my last good injector to #7 at the time of fixing the Hutch mod, but I ran out of sticks for #2. I have to get #9 fixed, swap it with #2, then send #2 in for repair and put back in #9 inventory.
If you're wondering, the bad injector does show up with a cool cylinder with an IR gun, and the dual EGT gauges alerted me as soon as it reached this point. Under normal circumstances, both manifold are balanced. Right now, the driver side is about 75 degrees cooler at cruise, depending on Stinky's mood.
I'll give it to you Rich you have patience and a bigger bank account then I do to justify everything you've done to stinky. One day with those two things put together I hope you'll finally have the truck you've been dreaming about.
...Like so many others, I too have also done the Hutch mode and had added a spinoff pre filter that had been suggested in so many of the other threads. Ever since I did this mod, I started running into several issues with the truck. The biggest issue I'm down to right now is low compression in a few cylinders causing high crank case pressure. I have always wonder if a damaged injectors could allow the pressure from the cylinder escape back into the crank case....
Spin-on prefilter killed my fuel pressure - the rest of the system and my choice of prefilter was not engineered for my application. Like Tim Hodgson, I went with the Racor - it's just an external serviceable screen to do the job of the old in-tank screens. It might suffice as a water separator as well.
A loose injector can send exhaust gasses were they don't belong, but you'll know it if the stick is that loose. The truck will sound like a woodpecker with a maul for a beak is in there banging away on a galvanized light pole - and you won't see your truck because of the smoke screen. You just find the truck by walking toward the banging.
You know, I wonder if it would be better to place even the Racor PS120-2 screen pre-filter closer to the tank? So that bubbles if any and if they can will settle out prior to the pump. I know the Ford engineers are smart and are very experienced (but I personally know they aren't that smart because otherwise I wouldn't have had a fuel tank delamination).
It would be helpful to hear from a fluid mechanics engineer or from a retired Ford engineer on this one. Because I don't know why they do some things differently and some things the same on their diesel vs. gas trucks.
I am in the process of rebuilding the gasoline pump on my Bronco right now. Ford puts the fuel pumps in the tank in the gasoline versions of the F-Series and E-Series but puts the fuel pump on the frame rail in the diesel versions but leaves the pick up screens in the tank in both. Why the differences? And why the similarities?
I'll give it to you Rich you have patience and a bigger bank account then I do to justify everything you've done to stinky. One day with those two things put together I hope you'll finally have the truck you've been dreaming about.
New 6.7L Superduty: $60K - $75K. I'm not even close to that expense, and I'll take Stinky for the next 300K miles before I would one of those. I just have to stop screwing up.
I'll say this, though - the mistakes I made would have absolutely nuked about 6.7 of the new Powerstrokes. The 7.3L just keeps takin' it and sayin' "What else you got?"
Failed Hutch mod: The single fuel injector hose clamp on the fuel line where it connects to the tank didn't seal the line. I added a second hose clamp, so now I have one inside the quick-connect ridge and one outside of that. My fuel pressure used to dip to 40-45 PSI at WOT, now I never see anything less than 55 PSI.
.
Way back when I purchased my in tank mod kit from Dieselsite I remember the instructions were very explicit about using two clamps on every connection. I guess buying that kit instead of putting my own together was a good move if just for that reason. I have enjoyed air free fuel and 60-65 PSI ever since even at WOT. Granted I still have stock sticks and have no intention of changing them.
You know, I wonder if it would be better to place even the Racor PS120-2 screen pre-filter closer to the tank? So that bubbles if any and if they can will settle out prior to the pump.
Ford puts the fuel pumps in the tank in the gasoline versions of the F-Series and E-Series but puts the fuel pump on the frame rail in the diesel versions but leaves the pick up screens in the tank in both. Why the differences? And why the similarities?
If you look at the Racor PS120-2, air goes strait to the fuel outlet. I could invert it, but that would be a temporary fix until the air filled the bowl, it would send water straight to the fuel outlet, and it would make a mess when opening to clean the screen.
The gassers don't have a diesel-rated pump that provides 60 PSI at 35 GPH. The pump was contracted out and Bosch came up with the unit we have, which doesn't go in the tank. All the other aftermarket frame pumps that people typically buy (like the Walbro) are not diesel rated.
Originally Posted by bigb56
Way back when I purchased my in tank mod kit from Dieselsite I remember the instructions were very explicit about using two clamps on every connection. I guess buying that kit instead of putting my own together was a good move if just for that reason. I have enjoyed air free fuel and 60-65 PSI ever since even at WOT. Granted I still have stock sticks and have no intention of changing them.
Good point - I should have at least read the kit instructions, eh? My Hutch mod is home made, so I missed that. I have Stage II sticks, so it takes more mods to the fuel system to maintain the 60 PSI at WOT.
Tugly and others: Whoa! Can you explain or provide a link to a thread where you discuss your "failed Hutch mod" ?
On the subject of air in the filter, I have always wondered, if instead of air being introduced into the fuel by leaky quick disconnects, whether or not "cavitation" of the fuel in an inappropriate pre-pump filter could be causing the air bubbles in the fuel.
That is why I went with the Racor PS120-2 specifically designed diesel pre-pump "strainer."
Since you are a sailor (I am or, when I had more time, was a windsurfer ... "Would that it were, would that it were...") you are likely familiar with the phenomenon called "cavitation" where air bubbles are not introduced into a liquid but come out of the liquid when the liquid flows over a rough surface.*
In windsurfing a fin with a burr or a nick can cause cavitation around the surface of the fin. And cavitation can cause some spectacular crashes. Like when you are planing near 30 mph just zipping along on a beam reach and instantaneously the fin loses lateral resistance and the board spins 90 degrees to straight downwind flipping the sailer over the bars and onto his back into the sail because, as we know, from whitewater kayaking, whitewater is white because it has air in it - like whitecaps, like river rapids (current over rocks), like snow, and water which is infused with air is less dense than greenwater. (Racers are meticulous with their fins treating them like their eyeballs, avoiding if at all possible or repairing any nicks or burrs.)
So, I want to know about your failed Hutch mod and I want to hear your thoughts on the possibility of fuel cavitation actually causing the air bubbles, and if an inappropriate "filter" could be causing the cavitation.
*I think current caused cavitation may be different than heat caused cavitation which the IDI's suffered from when engine coolant without sufficient SCA's hits the back side of the piston cylinder sleeves.
I think you bring up a great point about cavitation. The other cause of fuel system cavitation is pressure drop. The vapor boils out of the fuel when a vacuum is applied. I did a quick search on the term fuel cavitation and found several references to fuel vapor being the culprit instead of air.
...I did a quick search on the term fuel cavitation and found several references to fuel vapor being the culprit instead of air.
I could be wrong, but I think fuel vapor has more to do with gasoline - it has more volatility. Not that this is a safe experiment - but I would bet gas in a blender would make explosive fumes, and diesel in a blender would make foam.
If you scroll down below the video you will see several references to entrained air in diesel fuel, vapor boil off and the effects on performance. I realize they are trying to sell a product but the references are legit.How AirDog® Works - Fuel Filtration Delivery System Improves Diesel Engine Performance
My point was we may not be sucking air in through various fuel line connections. We may be pulling the air and vapor out of the fuel through pressure drops we add when we install pre-pump filters.
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