460 timing gear set
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,049
Likes: 65
460 timing gear set
Looking at replacing the water pump and timing gears on my factory stock '86 460.
I've been told running a "straight up" timing set from a later model EFI 460 will advance the stock cam timing and improve performance.
Before I begin I'm hoping y'all can help me with some questions and parts selection.
1) What performance improvements can I expect?
2) Specific timing set recommendation?
3) Specific water pump recommendation?
4) Gasket set recommendation?
Background / baseline. Stock 460 + C6 tranny in a 9,000 lb motor home. Routinely tow 3,000 lb trailer. Low end power and torque is most important, especially on the boat ramp. Mostly run 2k to 3k RPM on the highway. Currently getting 8.5 mpg towing, 9.25 mpg without trailer.
Any thoughts, information, or ideas on the subject would be greatly appreciated.
I've been told running a "straight up" timing set from a later model EFI 460 will advance the stock cam timing and improve performance.
Before I begin I'm hoping y'all can help me with some questions and parts selection.
1) What performance improvements can I expect?
2) Specific timing set recommendation?
3) Specific water pump recommendation?
4) Gasket set recommendation?
Background / baseline. Stock 460 + C6 tranny in a 9,000 lb motor home. Routinely tow 3,000 lb trailer. Low end power and torque is most important, especially on the boat ramp. Mostly run 2k to 3k RPM on the highway. Currently getting 8.5 mpg towing, 9.25 mpg without trailer.
Any thoughts, information, or ideas on the subject would be greatly appreciated.
More Turbo
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 585
Likes: 11
'73 and newer 429/460 engines have the crank gear retarded. You can tell by looking at the timing mark. If its directly above the keyway, its straight but if its offset to the side of the keyway it will be retarded. You can swap in a timing set for a '68-'72 429/460 which places the cam timing straight up. I'm not sure about the later model timing sets, but I know the pre '73 used that style. Don't expect huge power gains but it does seem to wake up the lower end.
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 40
From: EXTREME southwest CT
EFI sets are "straight up" full roller timing sets from the factory.
The Cloyes 9-1122 is under $50.
I use a TRW water pump and Fel-Pro 45129 gasket set.
Get the 45279 if your balancer is scored and you need the sleeve and Loctite bearing retainer that's included in that set.
The Cloyes 9-1122 is under $50.
I use a TRW water pump and Fel-Pro 45129 gasket set.
Get the 45279 if your balancer is scored and you need the sleeve and Loctite bearing retainer that's included in that set.
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
From: Jackson, Wyoming
I purchased a Gates water pump and Comp Cams Magnum double roller timing set for my '86 460. The water pump is alright but I likely spent more than I had to for the timing set. If I had to do it again I would go with the Cloyes just because it's the same outcome for less money.
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 40
From: EXTREME southwest CT
Go for stock EFI replacement, Cloyes C-3207.
It's even less...
http://www.carpartkings.com/cloyes-e...et-c-3207.html
http://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts/...42oaAsPh8P8HAQ
etc...
It's even less...
http://www.carpartkings.com/cloyes-e...et-c-3207.html
http://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts/...42oaAsPh8P8HAQ
etc...
Thread Starter
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,049
Likes: 65
Thanks very much for the replys guys.
Thank you Rowdy for explaining "straight up" so well even I could understand it!
Big thanks to ARD for the shopping list. I like lists and that's a huge help. Tried to rep you but I'm locked out for now.
Still eager to hear what changes I can expect. Good starts? Smooth idle? Power band? Gas Mileage?
Also wonder about tuning. Is it compatable with the air pumps and other stock emission equiptment? If the cam is being advanced should I retard the base timing? Will it effect the idle mixture?
Finally, I'm not doubting but I am eager to understand the operational theory behind the adjustment. Why'd the factory put it where they did and what does advancing it (4 degrees?) do?
Thank you Rowdy for explaining "straight up" so well even I could understand it!
Big thanks to ARD for the shopping list. I like lists and that's a huge help. Tried to rep you but I'm locked out for now.
Still eager to hear what changes I can expect. Good starts? Smooth idle? Power band? Gas Mileage?
Also wonder about tuning. Is it compatable with the air pumps and other stock emission equiptment? If the cam is being advanced should I retard the base timing? Will it effect the idle mixture?
Finally, I'm not doubting but I am eager to understand the operational theory behind the adjustment. Why'd the factory put it where they did and what does advancing it (4 degrees?) do?
Senior User
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
From: Jackson, Wyoming
Ford retarded the cam timing 4* to help pass emissions starting in 1972.
I installed the Comp Cams set at 0* Monday. It's noticeable and I would say it makes a little more power across the entire RPM range. I tow with mine, just under 18,000lbs truck and trailer combined and that's where I really noticed the improvement.
EGR and AIR was deleted a long time ago on my truck. MPG's I don't know about as I don't keep track. About the same I would assume. I have an Edelbrock 1407, 750cfm manual choke and I can't tell any difference in starting. Idle seems the same as well.
I installed the Comp Cams set at 0* Monday. It's noticeable and I would say it makes a little more power across the entire RPM range. I tow with mine, just under 18,000lbs truck and trailer combined and that's where I really noticed the improvement.
EGR and AIR was deleted a long time ago on my truck. MPG's I don't know about as I don't keep track. About the same I would assume. I have an Edelbrock 1407, 750cfm manual choke and I can't tell any difference in starting. Idle seems the same as well.
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pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 40
From: EXTREME southwest CT
You will notice the engine is more responsive and seems more powerful.
It works fine with all emissions installed.
Mine was that way for more than a decade, until my truck hit 25 and didn't need annual inspections anymore.
The theory is that keeping the exhaust valve closed an extra four degrees allows more time for complete combustion.
This is entirely independant of ignition timing.
A motorhome is a huge, heavy brick, but it would still likely benefit from recurving the distributor.
Setting base timing, centrifugal advance, vacuum advance and total, always seems to eek out some gains.
It works fine with all emissions installed.
Mine was that way for more than a decade, until my truck hit 25 and didn't need annual inspections anymore.
The theory is that keeping the exhaust valve closed an extra four degrees allows more time for complete combustion.
This is entirely independant of ignition timing.
A motorhome is a huge, heavy brick, but it would still likely benefit from recurving the distributor.
Setting base timing, centrifugal advance, vacuum advance and total, always seems to eek out some gains.
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Hotshot
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 15,014
Likes: 35
From: Semper Fi tell I die!
EFI sets are "straight up" full roller timing sets from the factory.
The Cloyes 9-1122 is under $50.
I use a TRW water pump and Fel-Pro 45129 gasket set.
Get the 45279 if your balancer is scored and you need the sleeve and Loctite bearing retainer that's included in that set.
The Cloyes 9-1122 is under $50.
I use a TRW water pump and Fel-Pro 45129 gasket set.
Get the 45279 if your balancer is scored and you need the sleeve and Loctite bearing retainer that's included in that set.
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 40
From: EXTREME southwest CT
You want the 'O' keyway.
IIRC, the advanced is a triangle and retarded is a square.
This is why I suggest a stock EFI timing set.
There's only one keyway and it is 'straight up'
IIRC, the advanced is a triangle and retarded is a square.
This is why I suggest a stock EFI timing set.
There's only one keyway and it is 'straight up'
Hotshot
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 15,014
Likes: 35
From: Semper Fi tell I die!
i might just get that efi one
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