Dyno results.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,738
Likes: 15
From: Temperance, MI
I had a good bit to add to this but apparently I timed out and that's in the wind now....
What I was getting at is it comes down to the platform you start with. The 7.3 is a horrible platform for pushing impressive numbers (just stating a fact) the head design doesn't get much worse. If you've ever actually looked inside of one then you understand.
It comes down to how much cash do you want to throw into it.
Whutetmw you mentioned there's no replacement for displacement and I agree with you that that couldn't be more wrong. I have 408 ci and put down the numbers in my signature. In my findings with the "other" engine is the expensive parts are not the go fast parts but instead the parts that keep everything together. You mentioned air/fuel that when you change one there's usually a sacrifice with another, I agree but would like to add that there's a 3rd part to that and that's keeping everything else where it should be. When you get to a certain level where everything air fuel wise is happy then comes the hard parts to keep everything in place such as studs, girdle, rods, push rods,valve springs etc etc.
It's apples to oranges in comparing my old 7.3 to my little 6 cylinder. There two completely different injection systems and technology.
I wasn't even going to say anything on this topic/thread but since I've switched to the other side and still click around here time to time I've been getting a lot of PMs asking about my experience. I welcome all of them good or bad.
What I was getting at is it comes down to the platform you start with. The 7.3 is a horrible platform for pushing impressive numbers (just stating a fact) the head design doesn't get much worse. If you've ever actually looked inside of one then you understand.
It comes down to how much cash do you want to throw into it.
Whutetmw you mentioned there's no replacement for displacement and I agree with you that that couldn't be more wrong. I have 408 ci and put down the numbers in my signature. In my findings with the "other" engine is the expensive parts are not the go fast parts but instead the parts that keep everything together. You mentioned air/fuel that when you change one there's usually a sacrifice with another, I agree but would like to add that there's a 3rd part to that and that's keeping everything else where it should be. When you get to a certain level where everything air fuel wise is happy then comes the hard parts to keep everything in place such as studs, girdle, rods, push rods,valve springs etc etc.
It's apples to oranges in comparing my old 7.3 to my little 6 cylinder. There two completely different injection systems and technology.
I wasn't even going to say anything on this topic/thread but since I've switched to the other side and still click around here time to time I've been getting a lot of PMs asking about my experience. I welcome all of them good or bad.
Posting Guru
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,080
Likes: 10
I had thought about mentioning the Sticks. Mentioning ours are Positive Displacement and not Fuel Rail Pulse With Supply. I still think people who buy into the whole "lets increase the fuel pressure thing" don't understand ours are limited. No amount of fuel pressure will do anything for performance other than to shorten the life of the fuel pump.
More Turbo
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 655
Likes: 18
From: Randolph County NC
CGMKCM,
I wonder if Tom might have thought your graph was the OP's?
Anyhow, I'm trying to recall the compressor map for the stock H2E. Wasn't the stock H2E setup geared more for higher rpm's? What a difference the wheel made.
Edit: How did the SOTP feel after the wheel upgrade?
Sorry to get off topic.......
I wonder if Tom might have thought your graph was the OP's?
Anyhow, I'm trying to recall the compressor map for the stock H2E. Wasn't the stock H2E setup geared more for higher rpm's? What a difference the wheel made.
Edit: How did the SOTP feel after the wheel upgrade?
Sorry to get off topic.......
The wheel upgrade really made a huge difference. My testimonial is posted at Dieselsite under the H2e wheel. Some of the highlights are quieter than stock H2e wheel, lower EGTs, less lag, and a nice bump in power output. Really good bang for the buck.
More Turbo
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 655
Likes: 18
From: Randolph County NC
Like I stated above. There is no shame in that run. It looks good.
What you have is a good overall "no load run". Which means the TQ/HP move in the same realm during acceleration. A more accurate snapshot of what's happening at the wheel and not the engine at the time of day you did it, the intake air temperature, the engine temperature, and the elevation you were at.
"Disappointment" shouldn't enter your mind. You set out to see what it would do on a WOT run. Now you have the information you set out to get.
You now have a fact to deal with. Do you want (or need) more Torque? That's the only thought you should have.
A "Loaded Run" takes into account many programming factors. Where, when, weather, heat, elevation, length of run, etc.
You can't "add or remove TQ" from a tune. You can adjust the fuel, timing, duration, and fool some sensors to improve it some.
**But, the down side is the functionality of the vehicle driven as a daily driver. Something must suffer - cause and effect. Do you want Economy or a raging engine which can't pass a Fuel point or something in-between.**
After doing Racing Motorcycle Engines for eons (which actually started as a hobby in the 80's). I've come to realize that an increase in one often is a deficit for the other. The optimum is to find a mix that will get you up, shoot you down lane, maintain the run, and not "fall on its face" (pass the of HP to TQ curve) doing it.
The question you should be asking yourself is; Do I want to increase the TQ? And, if the answer is yes, how do I go about doing it AND maintain or increase HP. The next is.......... "how much money you got?".
Here is the equation I tell people I use to determine that:
$$$$$$=(HP&TQ).
There is no other way. There are many people who use the phrase "there is no replacement for displacement" False, doesn't understand! It's called MONEY $$$.
While I can, and have run a Dyno's for years, I'm not the one you want doing it. Setting up the sensors, and programming the inputs are an art form. And one size does not fit all. A dedicated Diesel Tuning Dyno resembles nothing of a Gasoline Tuning Dyno. Same for Aspirated or injected. Sensors and inputs must be changed and spanned for the particular vehicle if you're doing tuning.
I build the engine based on what it's going to do and just as importantly where its going to do it. - Weather, elevation, etc. Then, I take it to Richard who is the top guy on a Dyno. He'll program the simulations, and run it and make selections and opinions based on the data he sees. Anyone can run a WOT Dyno and print a sheet.
It often takes up 6 - 10 hours to "dial one in" and 30 runs sometimes. The good guys will run them at 5% or 10% throttle position increments each time for just one run. That can be 10 runs WOT just to get an idea of what its doing before even considering what might need to be adjusted or replaced.
You ever wonder why you sign a release form when you get a Dyno run? I've carried many parts back from a dyno run until I got the engine right. HP=Engine Stress / TQ=Driveline Stress. How much stress can one take before a nervous breakdown? An Engine is no different.
What you have is a good overall "no load run". Which means the TQ/HP move in the same realm during acceleration. A more accurate snapshot of what's happening at the wheel and not the engine at the time of day you did it, the intake air temperature, the engine temperature, and the elevation you were at.
"Disappointment" shouldn't enter your mind. You set out to see what it would do on a WOT run. Now you have the information you set out to get.
You now have a fact to deal with. Do you want (or need) more Torque? That's the only thought you should have.
A "Loaded Run" takes into account many programming factors. Where, when, weather, heat, elevation, length of run, etc.
You can't "add or remove TQ" from a tune. You can adjust the fuel, timing, duration, and fool some sensors to improve it some.
**But, the down side is the functionality of the vehicle driven as a daily driver. Something must suffer - cause and effect. Do you want Economy or a raging engine which can't pass a Fuel point or something in-between.**
After doing Racing Motorcycle Engines for eons (which actually started as a hobby in the 80's). I've come to realize that an increase in one often is a deficit for the other. The optimum is to find a mix that will get you up, shoot you down lane, maintain the run, and not "fall on its face" (pass the of HP to TQ curve) doing it.
The question you should be asking yourself is; Do I want to increase the TQ? And, if the answer is yes, how do I go about doing it AND maintain or increase HP. The next is.......... "how much money you got?".
Here is the equation I tell people I use to determine that:
$$$$$$=(HP&TQ).
There is no other way. There are many people who use the phrase "there is no replacement for displacement" False, doesn't understand! It's called MONEY $$$.
While I can, and have run a Dyno's for years, I'm not the one you want doing it. Setting up the sensors, and programming the inputs are an art form. And one size does not fit all. A dedicated Diesel Tuning Dyno resembles nothing of a Gasoline Tuning Dyno. Same for Aspirated or injected. Sensors and inputs must be changed and spanned for the particular vehicle if you're doing tuning.
I build the engine based on what it's going to do and just as importantly where its going to do it. - Weather, elevation, etc. Then, I take it to Richard who is the top guy on a Dyno. He'll program the simulations, and run it and make selections and opinions based on the data he sees. Anyone can run a WOT Dyno and print a sheet.
It often takes up 6 - 10 hours to "dial one in" and 30 runs sometimes. The good guys will run them at 5% or 10% throttle position increments each time for just one run. That can be 10 runs WOT just to get an idea of what its doing before even considering what might need to be adjusted or replaced.
You ever wonder why you sign a release form when you get a Dyno run? I've carried many parts back from a dyno run until I got the engine right. HP=Engine Stress / TQ=Driveline Stress. How much stress can one take before a nervous breakdown? An Engine is no different.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,738
Likes: 15
From: Temperance, MI
After thinking about this thread a little more I want to add one last thing.
Driving a 400hp/800tq truck as a daily driver is more fun then driving a 580hp/1140tq DD. Hear me out....
With a 400/800 truck you can floor it in almost any situation and take off quickly without worrying about anything. In a truck like my little 6 cylinder flooring it under 30 mph on drive pavement is an almost guaranteed trip sideways. Now add wet roads, raining,snowing etc. At highway speeds I cannot floor it... Ask me how I know that one....
What I'm getting at is a lot of guys want big HP and TQ numbers. Well 99% of the time all it is is bragging rights... That's it.
Now with that being said I'm working on a recipe for 800 rwhp
Driving a 400hp/800tq truck as a daily driver is more fun then driving a 580hp/1140tq DD. Hear me out....
With a 400/800 truck you can floor it in almost any situation and take off quickly without worrying about anything. In a truck like my little 6 cylinder flooring it under 30 mph on drive pavement is an almost guaranteed trip sideways. Now add wet roads, raining,snowing etc. At highway speeds I cannot floor it... Ask me how I know that one....
What I'm getting at is a lot of guys want big HP and TQ numbers. Well 99% of the time all it is is bragging rights... That's it.
Now with that being said I'm working on a recipe for 800 rwhp
Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,426
Likes: 6
From: Sioux Falls, SD
But back to the OP's original question. With a pretty much stock setup (turbo, HPOP, sticks, fuel, etc...) and a custom chip with maybe exhaust & air intake what HP numbers can be expected. I'm thinking 300-310. That's with are other systems performing up to snuff.
Anyone think otherwise?
Anyone think otherwise?
Logistics Pro
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,738
Likes: 15
From: Temperance, MI
It seems 330 HP is about the max that I've seen or heard of with stock just about everything as far as hard parts go in perfect running order.
Sorry for a sort of hijack OP
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make
Brett Foote
Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!
Michael S. Palmer
Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home
Verdad Gallardo
10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!
Joe Kucinski
2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road: Better Than a Raptor R?
Brett Foote
2027 Super Duty Carhartt Package First Look: 12 Things You NEED to Know!
Michael S. Palmer
10 Most Surprising 2026 Ford Truck Features!
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 Ford Trucks Coming to Mecum Indy 2026
Brett Foote
5 Best / 5 Worst Ford Truck Wheels of All Time
Joe Kucinski
Posting Guru
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,080
Likes: 10
After thinking about this thread a little more I want to add one last thing.
Driving a 400hp/800tq truck as a daily driver is more fun then driving a 580hp/1140tq DD. Hear me out....
With a 400/800 truck you can floor it in almost any situation and take off quickly without worrying about anything. In a truck like my little 6 cylinder flooring it under 30 mph on drive pavement is an almost guaranteed trip sideways. Now add wet roads, raining,snowing etc. At highway speeds I cannot floor it... Ask me how I know that one....
What I'm getting at is a lot of guys want big HP and TQ numbers. Well 99% of the time all it is is bragging rights... That's it.
Now with that being said I'm working on a recipe for 800 rwhp
Driving a 400hp/800tq truck as a daily driver is more fun then driving a 580hp/1140tq DD. Hear me out....
With a 400/800 truck you can floor it in almost any situation and take off quickly without worrying about anything. In a truck like my little 6 cylinder flooring it under 30 mph on drive pavement is an almost guaranteed trip sideways. Now add wet roads, raining,snowing etc. At highway speeds I cannot floor it... Ask me how I know that one....
What I'm getting at is a lot of guys want big HP and TQ numbers. Well 99% of the time all it is is bragging rights... That's it.
Now with that being said I'm working on a recipe for 800 rwhp
I don't think anyone is saying this or that. Hell, its your money and your truck. Do what you want to. Its yours.
That's my opinion whole heartedly.
Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,426
Likes: 6
From: Sioux Falls, SD
A question for you "dyno smart" folks.
Is it true:
1. Alot depends on the dyno operators technical ability and setting up the dyno for this type of vehicle.
2. That dyno results can vary. If so is this do to the the dyno operator or the nature of the beast.
In my limited dyno experience it seems that my first 2 dyno runs seem to yield the higher results. Once things get hot and there isn't much airflow over the intercooler & radiator (besides a shop fan) the HP & TQ numbers drop. Is this a fair statement ?
Is it true:
1. Alot depends on the dyno operators technical ability and setting up the dyno for this type of vehicle.
2. That dyno results can vary. If so is this do to the the dyno operator or the nature of the beast.
In my limited dyno experience it seems that my first 2 dyno runs seem to yield the higher results. Once things get hot and there isn't much airflow over the intercooler & radiator (besides a shop fan) the HP & TQ numbers drop. Is this a fair statement ?
Cargo Master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,837
Likes: 1
347 hp and somewhere around 650 tq with my setup (stock sticks).
ETA: Cody has my tunes really dialed in. My limiting factor is definitely my injectors. I ran 342 hp in my 65 Tow tune, and 347 hp in my 120 Race tune.
ETA again: This was prior to installing Clay's billet wheel for ported housings. We were hoping to get some "after" numbers this past year at RRE, but, well, anyone who was there knows why that didn't happen.....
ETA: Cody has my tunes really dialed in. My limiting factor is definitely my injectors. I ran 342 hp in my 65 Tow tune, and 347 hp in my 120 Race tune.
ETA again: This was prior to installing Clay's billet wheel for ported housings. We were hoping to get some "after" numbers this past year at RRE, but, well, anyone who was there knows why that didn't happen.....
Thread Starter
|
More Turbo
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 583
Likes: 46
From: Utah
No sorry needed! Good reading.
My truck is an E99. This was my first time on a dyno but it looked to me like they were loaded runs. I was impressed with my TQ numbers. Thought the HP would be a little higher though.
My truck is an E99. This was my first time on a dyno but it looked to me like they were loaded runs. I was impressed with my TQ numbers. Thought the HP would be a little higher though.
Postmaster
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,951
Likes: 4
From: Gary,Indiana
Like I stated above. There is no shame in that run. It looks good.
**But, the down side is the functionality of the vehicle driven as a daily driver. Something must suffer - cause and effect. Do you want Economy or a raging engine which can't pass a Fuel point or something in-between.**
Here is the equation I tell people I use to determine that:
$$$$$$=(HP&TQ).
There is no other way. There are many people who use the phrase "there is no replacement for displacement" False, doesn't understand! It's called MONEY $$$.
I build the engine based on what it's going to do and just as importantly where its going to do it. - Weather, elevation, etc. Then, I take it to Richard who is the top guy on a Dyno. He'll program the simulations, and run it and make selections and opinions based on the data he sees. Anyone can run a WOT Dyno and print a sheet.
You ever wonder why you sign a release form when you get a Dyno run? I've carried many parts back from a dyno run until I got the engine right. HP=Engine Stress / TQ=Driveline Stress. How much stress can one take before a nervous breakdown? An Engine is no different.
**But, the down side is the functionality of the vehicle driven as a daily driver. Something must suffer - cause and effect. Do you want Economy or a raging engine which can't pass a Fuel point or something in-between.**
Here is the equation I tell people I use to determine that:
$$$$$$=(HP&TQ).
There is no other way. There are many people who use the phrase "there is no replacement for displacement" False, doesn't understand! It's called MONEY $$$.
I build the engine based on what it's going to do and just as importantly where its going to do it. - Weather, elevation, etc. Then, I take it to Richard who is the top guy on a Dyno. He'll program the simulations, and run it and make selections and opinions based on the data he sees. Anyone can run a WOT Dyno and print a sheet.
You ever wonder why you sign a release form when you get a Dyno run? I've carried many parts back from a dyno run until I got the engine right. HP=Engine Stress / TQ=Driveline Stress. How much stress can one take before a nervous breakdown? An Engine is no different.
And I concur 100% on the formula : $$$$$$=(HP&TQ)
As far as the dyno talk goes I am a firm believer that if you want a engine & tuning to be 100% it needs to be done on a engine dyno. So I would find it interesting to know who (like Swamps /I think they do?) is set up with a diesel engine dyno and set up to do the tuning for a 7.3??
I say this because I work on / build boats and I end up building at least a engine or set of engines per year. The guys that won't spend the money on having their engine dyno tuned had way more issues then the guy willing to spend the MONEY to have 2 engines dyno tuned and synch'ed up. I too believe that how you use a dyno to try to match the real world end usage make a huge difference. Because a WOT dyno tune does No Good when in the real world it does not help you when driving down the highway or try to make a 8k boat cruise @3k without falling on it's face.
Lastly I will NEVER let some clown do a dyno run on my truck !! Never !! Like you said they make you sign a waiver. Well years a ago I worked at a Ford bodyshop in Mattson, IL. and the service dept had a dyno for the Mustang guys. This shop was about 20 miles from Route 66 drag strip. Well at least once a week you would hear a car go "BOOM" and all I could do was laugh.
I know that wasn't nice, but what can I say
But it made me feel bad when I would see the look on the owners face.
So thank you to all that do brave the dyno !!!!
After thinking about this thread a little more I want to add one last thing.
Driving a 400hp/800tq truck as a daily driver is more fun then driving a 580hp/1140tq DD. Hear me out....
With a 400/800 truck you can floor it in almost any situation and take off quickly without worrying about anything. In a truck like my little 6 cylinder flooring it under 30 mph on drive pavement is an almost guaranteed trip sideways. Now add wet roads, raining,snowing etc. At highway speeds I cannot floor it... Ask me how I know that one....
What I'm getting at is a lot of guys want big HP and TQ numbers. Well 99% of the time all it is is bragging rights... That's it.
Now with that being said I'm working on a recipe for 800 rwhp
Driving a 400hp/800tq truck as a daily driver is more fun then driving a 580hp/1140tq DD. Hear me out....
With a 400/800 truck you can floor it in almost any situation and take off quickly without worrying about anything. In a truck like my little 6 cylinder flooring it under 30 mph on drive pavement is an almost guaranteed trip sideways. Now add wet roads, raining,snowing etc. At highway speeds I cannot floor it... Ask me how I know that one....
What I'm getting at is a lot of guys want big HP and TQ numbers. Well 99% of the time all it is is bragging rights... That's it.
Now with that being said I'm working on a recipe for 800 rwhp
Now do you now have a 5.9 or the 6.7 Cummins?
All in all good job !!
Last edited by BadDogKuzz; Feb 12, 2015 at 05:53 PM. Reason: oopppsss
More Turbo
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 655
Likes: 18
From: Randolph County NC
But back to the OP's original question. With a pretty much stock setup (turbo, HPOP, sticks, fuel, etc...) and a custom chip with maybe exhaust & air intake what HP numbers can be expected. I'm thinking 300-310. That's with are other systems performing up to snuff.
Anyone think otherwise?
Anyone think otherwise?