I keep considering trading my v-10 in for a diesel, but here are the numbers as I have seen it, anyone can chime in if they see a flaw in these numbers.

If I trade in my truck and break even, I would still owe about 15000 dollars to get into a similarly equipped diesel with the same mileage. So using that as a factor here we go

Cost of diesel 1.47 per gallon/17 MPG average over the life of the truck= .087 cents per mile

Cost of gas 1.49 per gallon/11 mpg average over the life of the truck=.136 cents per gallon

difference per mile .05 cents

$15000/.05=300000 miles to break even

add exhuast, chip and filter to V-10 $2000

$13000/.05= 260000 miles to break even

add Whipple supercharger $4000

$9000/.05=180000 miles to break even

Now I know that diesel can last this long but does anyone keep a truck that long? This also doesn't include the diffrences in oil changes and routine maintance.

So am i wrong in these numbers or do they look right to everyone?

The only thing I didn't factor in is if you needed to put a new V-10 motor in at around $3000 if you did that at 150000 miles I don't know how that would change the above figures I am guessing that if I did all the mods it would take me 120000 miles on the diesel to break even, but then If I kept the V-10 I'd have a fresh motor to be starting with again instead of a diesel with 120000 and I'd have all of the mods to put back on.

 

According to all the complicated, and 'seat of the pants' calculations I've seen here, and other places, 150-180,000 miles seems to be the point where the diesel breaks even, if everything else is equal, which it isn't, but say it is, then 150K+ is break even. Diesel guys will tell you that at 150K their motors have lots of life left in them, which is true. Unfortunately it's everything else that wears out also, like alternators, rear-ends, front ends, etc so it's not just engines that you need to take into account. Good luck, either choice is a good one in my estimation although I'd give that NEW 6.0 PSD a little time to get the bugs worked out before I'd buy one. But it looks like you're looking at a used 7.3 PSD.

 

To make it even worse from my point of view, diesel where I live costs 10c to 15c per gallon more than octane rather than 2c less as you have listed. This past winter it was as much as 22c higher for a few weeks.

 

I don't see any flaw other than to chime in with the costs you use for each fuel, here in Texas there is a bigger dif with oil being higher price always.

Some factors, I used along with the painful math for "break even"

Maintenance:
V10 wins hands down

Up the Mountain hauling:
Depends, stock oil burner will haul a bigger load longer, but I sure do see a LOT of Ford V10s right in there and most are passing the Chev/Dodges!! Lots of bluehairs draging long trailers with the Ford V10 badge (they arn't all stupid, are they?)

Noise:
V10 wins by a lot

Hot rod ability:
PDS wins if you gots the $$$$$

Desire to lift:
This depends... if you REALLY bought the diesel or gasser to tow haul then a lift is out. If you got it as a cool status symbol, well the cheaper V10 has a cool factor built in and the saved $$$$.cc get the monster in the air!

Resale:
Under 100,000 miles slight edge to oil burner, over that it is a wash no advantage to either motor ( this is my opinion as to my buying values, I know the blue and yellow books say different)

Did I say cool factor? Here in the centeral Texas, (highest truck to car ratio on eatrh), the PSD out sells V10s 30 to 1. But every where I park mine, or get gas, or offer to drive folks to lunch, the comments are the same. Cool truck!, What does a V10 look like?, Lots of power, Very quiet, "OH, well 13mpg isn't bad for a truck that damned big", " Geeze this one don't stink like my brother's, cousin's, dad's, ect..." Not one person ever has talked trash about my little wimpy 415CI mouse motor!

Because V10 is COOL! And it ain't no wimp!

 

Hi mad man 1,

If you break even on your trade then it would seem that you intend on purchasing the diesel for $15,000. The question is, how much do you owe on the V10? For instance, if you owe $10,000 on the V10, and would owe $15,000 on the diesel, then the diesel is only costing you $5,000 and the payoff would be much sooner. Did you consider this in your calculations?

A well maintained gas engine will consitantly turn over 200,000 miles. How much more will the diesel turn? How many miles will the rest of the truck be capable of reliably turning? I don't have the answers but I think they are very important questions when you're considering trading in a truck with 120,000 miles and buying a truck with the same.

Your numbers look good to me. But are you being honest with yourself when you factor in aftermarket mods on the V10? If you're inclined to modify what is already a very powerful V10 engine wont you be just as inclined to do the same with the diesel. Either way, they are less than necessary and thusly misleading when figuring a pay-off period for the diesel. The very first number you calculated (300,000 miles) is the one you should use.

Keep the oil and filter changed and you may never need to replace the engine for as long as you own it. As you asked earlier: [i]"...does anyone keep a truck that long?" My answer to that question is yes, about 1 person in every 10,000. Keep in mind that whatever pay-off period you're looking at needs to be added to a truck that already has 120,000 miles on it. This is espessially important if it's going to be the 300,000 miles you have above. 420,000+ miles, Wow!

 

No I figured the value of my truck to be around 20000 for the trade in and all of the diesels I have looked at are a year newer but have within 5000 miles or so of mine. and there selling for 35000 around here. The reason I included the mods in my price comparision is for towing reasons I wanted to make the trucks as close as possible in hp and torque numbers at the rear wheels so taking stock into consideration

v-10 has about 215 hp and 280 tq

PSD has 205 hp and 450 tq

I know if I make the mods to the v-10 I will have way more hp than the diesel but to get the torque equal I needed to do those mods and possible even add the supercharger to get around 450tq

So the numbers I figured to break even would be on top of the 40000 miles the truck already has on it. And yes I could talk the down a bit on price but I know they'd try to screw me on the trade in value So I just considered it a wash.

 

I misunderstood. When you said break even on your current truck I took it to mean 'get as much as you owe on it'.

With that in mind then I guess all you need to consider is if you'll own the truck long enough for it to pay for itself. They sure do want a lot for those used diesels, $35,000, Wow. I just recently picked up my V10 with 30,000 miles for under $17, 000.

 

The PSD's have the 3.73 ratio rear end and the V10 has either the 3.73 or 4.30. I suspect the 4.30 in a V10 pulls very close to a 3.73 PST.

Ask any kid if a V10 is better than a PSD ( or any other diesel). Thay get blown away by the mere sound of a V10. This works great when you you are arguing with a Cummins owner. Tell their kid that you have a V10 and it will convience them every time.

 

insurance is usually higher on PSD !!!

 

Using your numbers, at 300,000 miles the V10 would have gone through $40,636 of gas and the diesel would have gone through $25,941 of diesel fuel. With these numbers, the diesel would have broken even a long time before 300,000 miles. The added cost of oil changes are not as bad with the 6.0 Power Stroke because the normal service interval is 7500 miles as opposed to the 5000 miles of the V10.

The typical break-even point is somewhere between 100-150K miles, depending on what type of towing/hauling you do. Even at mileage well above 100K, the diesel commands a higher resale value. All you have to do to confirm this is check www.autotrader.com and look for listings of comperable vehicles.

 

Lets factor in repair bills. The V10 will blow a radiator at 125000-150000 miles. The 6.0 will probably be behind the tow truck at least a half dozen times. I would rather pump gas than be on a hook anyday.

When I see the problems with the VT365 ( 6.0 for Fords) repaired, I may buy the 6.0. I work around these things so I know better.

My math says the V10 is cheaper for me. Numbers will vary for different circumstances.

 

That's what I was thinking. Seems like there's so many individual variables it's impossible to say one or the other is better for everyone. You have to consider local gas vs diesel costs, miles driven per year and how long you intend to keep the truck.

 

By the time you put 300,000 miles on your truck (assuming you rack up less than 20,000 miles a year for 15 or more years), the petroleum oil supply will become so scarce and expensive, that we have to switch to vegetable based fuels like biodiesel and alcohol. The maintenance issues associated with alcohol, as well as the fact that it takes a whole lot more alcohol fuel to do the same job as gas, as well as altering your fuel system to deal with it, will kill the gas/alcohol engines advantage over the bio/diesel real quick.
The diesel needs no modification what so ever and will get even better mileage compared to alcohol than it does to gas.

 

Besides that, at 300,000 miles in the diesel you will have replaced the alternator, the front end, the pinion bearing, the shocks several times, the front seat, the power window switches, the injector pump (big expense) the turbo (another big expense)etc, etc, etc. These will also be replaced on a gasengine if they last this long, or you will rebuild the engine. So toss a coin, whichever engine you like the best is the one you should buy. You can pencil them out til the end of time, and someone will always have a reason why, or why not. But in the meantime I'll be driving. So no matter which you pick, enjoy ! Post in the oilburner section if you buy the PSD, post here if you buy the V-10, or vice versa, we here in the V-10 forum are not anti-diesel like some diesel posters are anti-gasssers. Either rig will give you lots of smiles per gallon, and that has no price tag !

 

Unfortunately I suffer V10 as well as PSD envy.



But mine is atleast a 460.