302 throttle bodies
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 208
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From: Cheyenne
302 throttle bodies
people rely too much on what a head flows.....there is a lot of desighn that goes into a good port job, and a whole good head for that matter....intake runner bowl, length, actual velocity, quench of the combustion chamber, valve angles and placement within the cylinder....etc...
a good set of aftermarket heads are just that...after they make the originals, people improve upon them in engineering ways that you cant phisically do with a stock head.
a good set of aftermarket heads are just that...after they make the originals, people improve upon them in engineering ways that you cant phisically do with a stock head.
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,140
Likes: 4
From: Oak Harbor, OH
302 throttle bodies
Hitman, can you measure the TB on your truck? My intake hoses are double the size of the ones on my dad's 302. We both have vans so there could be some diff in the upper intake designs.
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,540
Likes: 2,031
From: North Texas
302 throttle bodies
I won't be able to for about a month! I am away from my truck until the second week of August! 
Maybe someone else reading this thread can contribute...if not the first thing I will do is measure them and post up.
It would make sense that the 351W TB's are larger as the motor is larger.
Maybe someone else reading this thread can contribute...if not the first thing I will do is measure them and post up.
It would make sense that the 351W TB's are larger as the motor is larger.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,493
Likes: 346
From: SE Iowa
302 throttle bodies
I check into the "Thumper" heads a little deeper. The charts I saw only showed a comparison to stock and then again to the GT40X. They out flowed them both! I didnt find any referenced to the aftermarket comparisons so I admit I could be wrong there. I was definitly wrong about what you get for your $600. You get complete bolt-on ready heads. Here is a link to a pic.
http://www.hunterstyle.com/thumper/i...ete50heads.jpg
Stryder
http://www.hunterstyle.com/thumper/i...ete50heads.jpg
Stryder
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,540
Likes: 2,031
From: North Texas
302 throttle bodies
Yeah he's getting some impressive numbers from those heads for sure. If you are budget limited those are a good way to go. The small valve sizing and port volume keeps the intake and exhaust velocity up keeping the power levels good.
Here is what I came up with...many of these are not in the 160cc area some are closer to 185cc but I got as close as I could.
.500 LIFT - 28" of H20
156/108 - Stock E7
185/129 - GT-40
196/139 - GT-40 P
204/144 - GT-40X
205/141 - Dart SR
219/151 - "Thumper E7"
237/172 - Brodix 5.0
243/185 - AFR165
245-251/170 - Edelbrock (intake flow based on valve sizing)
251/187 - Trick Flow Twisted Wedge
I could not find any data from Canfield, World Products, of the GT-40Y heads...must be a secret or something for heads in this size range...But their heads are all almost 180cc+ heads which barely fit in this ~160cc range.
Here is what I came up with...many of these are not in the 160cc area some are closer to 185cc but I got as close as I could.
.500 LIFT - 28" of H20
156/108 - Stock E7
185/129 - GT-40
196/139 - GT-40 P
204/144 - GT-40X
205/141 - Dart SR
219/151 - "Thumper E7"
237/172 - Brodix 5.0
243/185 - AFR165
245-251/170 - Edelbrock (intake flow based on valve sizing)
251/187 - Trick Flow Twisted Wedge
I could not find any data from Canfield, World Products, of the GT-40Y heads...must be a secret or something for heads in this size range...But their heads are all almost 180cc+ heads which barely fit in this ~160cc range.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,493
Likes: 346
From: SE Iowa
302 throttle bodies
Almost forgot. He will custom make the heads for you if your willing to pay. Things like bigger valves, shave the heads more than whats needs to true them up, etc.
Stryder
Stryder
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,540
Likes: 2,031
From: North Texas
302 throttle bodies
When you are talking about getting any more from those heads, I'd draw the line where he has them for $600. With $900-1000 in those heads...my box stock AFR-165's will make more power. I am certain of that just do to the fact they are made for performance not Smog requirements.
They are not a performance minded head and no amount of work can change the valve angles, runner shapes, etc. As what was brought up earlier, they need totally different runners, shaping, volume, etc. Just gets to the point what your budget is...
They are not a performance minded head and no amount of work can change the valve angles, runner shapes, etc. As what was brought up earlier, they need totally different runners, shaping, volume, etc. Just gets to the point what your budget is...
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Freshman User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
From: Golden CO
302 throttle bodies
Originally posted by Hit Man X
When you are talking about getting any more from those heads, I'd draw the line where he has them for $600. With $900-1000 in those heads...my box stock AFR-165's will make more power. I am certain of that just do to the fact they are made for performance not Smog requirements.
They are not a performance minded head and no amount of work can change the valve angles, runner shapes, etc. As what was brought up earlier, they need totally different runners, shaping, volume, etc. Just gets to the point what your budget is...
When you are talking about getting any more from those heads, I'd draw the line where he has them for $600. With $900-1000 in those heads...my box stock AFR-165's will make more power. I am certain of that just do to the fact they are made for performance not Smog requirements.
They are not a performance minded head and no amount of work can change the valve angles, runner shapes, etc. As what was brought up earlier, they need totally different runners, shaping, volume, etc. Just gets to the point what your budget is...
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,540
Likes: 2,031
From: North Texas
302 throttle bodies
mpmitche...
I do not have these on my truck...when I build a 392 in the next few years I will be running the 185cc AFR heads as they will build me a torque monster out of the smaller runners as I won't spin the motor past 6000rpms anyway. Until then I am going to run a set of mildly ported GT-40 irons.
AFR has 165 and 185cc heads both in street legal form. Have heat riser ports and the AIR ones on the back of the heads.
Stock chambers are 64cc I belive on the E7. So dropping to the 61cc head will raise your compression ~0.3. Basically you'd end up with 9.3:1 vs 9.0:1 with stock heads. If you ran 58cc heads you compression should jump to 9.6:1. That depends on head gasket thickness, if you block has been decked, etc.
The 165cc heads also use a 1.9" intake valve to keep the velocity up making them perform killer for their size and price.
You can easily still run 87 gas with that low of compression...my Z71 has 9.5:1 comp and runs 87. I think ignition timing determines octane useage more than compression does to a point.
What are your plans?
I do not have these on my truck...when I build a 392 in the next few years I will be running the 185cc AFR heads as they will build me a torque monster out of the smaller runners as I won't spin the motor past 6000rpms anyway. Until then I am going to run a set of mildly ported GT-40 irons.
AFR has 165 and 185cc heads both in street legal form. Have heat riser ports and the AIR ones on the back of the heads.
Stock chambers are 64cc I belive on the E7. So dropping to the 61cc head will raise your compression ~0.3. Basically you'd end up with 9.3:1 vs 9.0:1 with stock heads. If you ran 58cc heads you compression should jump to 9.6:1. That depends on head gasket thickness, if you block has been decked, etc.
The 165cc heads also use a 1.9" intake valve to keep the velocity up making them perform killer for their size and price.
You can easily still run 87 gas with that low of compression...my Z71 has 9.5:1 comp and runs 87. I think ignition timing determines octane useage more than compression does to a point.
What are your plans?
Last edited by Hit Man X; Jul 26, 2003 at 10:45 AM.
Freshman User
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Golden CO
302 throttle bodies
I'm actually thinking of porting and polishing the heads i have myself to see what it does. Then if (most likely) i screw up the port and polish i will probably go with the 61cc heads, i'm not sure about street leagal or not i don't have to pass emissions where i live. is it still ileagal to use the other heads? (i don't know how anyone would ever be able to tell)
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,540
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From: North Texas
302 throttle bodies
It is perfectly legal from what I understand to use CARB legal heads and even if they aren't CARB legal the AIR and Heat crossover passages are in the heads you should be fine.
If you need to stay plain, any of the OE late '80's-mid 90's heads all are the same pretty much to an average onlooker...
If you need to stay plain, any of the OE late '80's-mid 90's heads all are the same pretty much to an average onlooker...
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 132
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302 throttle bodies
Throttle body inside on my 91 5.0 truck is 52mm X 2. About the same area of a 65mm single body. Air only flows thru one cylinder at a time that is why a V6 can have the same size TB or MAF as a V8. Individual cyl dis placement.
(answer to question on previous page)
(answer to question on previous page)
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 9,540
Likes: 2,031
From: North Texas
302 throttle bodies
E150X... thanks for those measurements! That is the first upgrade TB on the TPI/LT1 Camaros and those make about 60-100 more HP stock.
Leaves me to say, the stock size is pretty well suited for pretty much stock and mildly hopped up trucks.
I plan to port a bit and polish my stock TB here in a few weeks...any results will be posted.
Leaves me to say, the stock size is pretty well suited for pretty much stock and mildly hopped up trucks.
I plan to port a bit and polish my stock TB here in a few weeks...any results will be posted.
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