Howdy everyone

I have a question I can't really seem to find via searching. I've never done HG's on a diesel before.

The TTY bolts... are they easier for a home mechanic to tighten down properly vs Studs? My future 6.0 is going to be set up as a daily driver and occasional RV hauler.

I read a lot online about guys with 6.0's reusing their $450.00 studs. The main reason I can figure they reuse the studs is if the HG's pop, even with the ARP's.

If the ARP's still let HG's pop wouldn't it be more cost effective to use $20.00 TTY bolts vs expensive studs?

Thanks!

Jeremiah

 

There are plenty of reasons HGs can still blow with ARPs, poor milling work, improper installation, non OEM HG, poor surface prep, and Tuners to name a few. At the end of the day there are one 10 bolts/studs holding the heads down.

If a person has a good machine shop that cares about what they are doing, properly preps the surfaces, bolt holes, uses OEM HG, basically does everything right there should be no reason to blow HG again when using studs even with a tuner. It's all about self control and common sense. IMO.

But, if you want to run around making 30lbs of boost everywhere you go, keep a HG fund handy.

I have only installed TTY bolts on a Chevrolet V6 and they were very easy to torque. The studs definitely takes some booty to get the to torque. At least with the new grease it is 210 ft lbs instead of 245 or what ever it used to be.

 

Are you going through with it? You're going to upset the Maxipad and goat boys over at RV.net! If you hang around this section, you'll find all the answers and tricks to dealing with the 6.0.

 

ARP it. The stock bolts are actually harder to tighten and don't give you nearly the strength. You won't blow a head gasket again unless you do it wrong or overdo the tuning.

 

All other things aside the TTY bolts were not designed to be reused.
Combine a poor head design & bolt placement which did not properly spread the clamp load on the head.block. Add in the use of tuners to increase boost force beyond design parremeters and you have a recipe for eventual failure.

I have worked on many 6.0's with high mileage that never had a head issue simply because they were never operated beyond design parremeters.

 

First question, you imply "your future" 6.0 is going to need the head gaskets changed. Don't change the head gaskets on a whim, you stand a far greater chance of screwing something up than if you leave something that isn't broken well enough alone. Second, there is no substantial difference to how hard it is to install studs vs turn to yield bolts if the heads are off. You follow the instructions, use a good quality torque wrench and the correct lubricant, and that's it. Third, ARP studs are designed to be infinitely reusable. I put them in race engines that I have done 30 head gaskets on, and never even stop to think about them.

Just my opinion. Brian

 

Thanks for the great responses.

I'm looking at an 06 F250 CC short bed...beautiful inside and out with $180k miles. Body and interior are nearly perfect.

Still has the TTY bolts and one head appears to have had a HG replaced or the head off for some reason. The drivers side TTY bolts have the market line on them and the passenger side does not.

Truck starts and runs beautifully..

Going to use my App to monitor deltas on the coolant and oil temps. If they check out I may just buy it.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

 

That's actually a very good question.
The answer is kinda complicated so in my usuial, long winded way, here goes.

A common failure of a 6.0 starts with a poorly maintained cooling system. Solids (rust) and some say silicate precipitation from the coolant get trapped in the oil cooler. blocking flow and reducing coolant flow to the EGR cooler. The overheated EGR cooler fails and leaks coolant into the intake manifold, and from there, into the cylinder. As it flashes from water to steam, the water in the coolant expands at a much higher rate/ratio than the air fuel mixture resulting in extremely high pressures in the cylinders. The engine is already at a disadvantage having only four bolts per cylinder holding the heads down to the block. The extreme pressure in the cylinders stretch the bolts slightly and the seal at the head gasket surface fails. Most people will say "I blew a head gasket" but really, the bolts and the gaskets both failed, bolts first. Many trucks are on the road with no OBD monitor but most of us here have a phone app or ScanGauge or similar to keep an eye on the oil/coolant temps. You can see this failure coming a long way off if you watch the temps occasionally. Obviously keeping the cooling system in good condition is important also.

There are other failure modes, over boosting, too hot of a tune, towing hard and heavy, overheating, but stretching of the head bolts is a common link when the engine finally fails.

The arp and equivalent studs won't be stretching under these conditions. The torque to yield bolts are at their strongest (clamping force) when properly installed and stretched. Many non-tuned or lightly tuned trucks have ran many miles on TTY bolts with no issues, but the bolts just don't have the resistance to further stretching the studs have.

As far as re-use, there are many reasons a head may need to be re-removed. Almost everyone who installed the Black Onyx gaskets a few years ago got to re-do the heads. Improper prep to the gasket surfaces can result in the heads coming back off. An injector tip breaking, a bad valve or a over heat causing head cracking could cause you to go back into it, but you won't be going back in because the the studs stretched.

I will say, if/when I go into mine it will get studs. It is an added expense, and it's tempting to use the TTY bolts that come with the head gasket from Ford (the only gasket to use) which would make the bolts basically free, the extra clamping force and resistance to stretching makes the studs a better answer, and in my opinion well worth the extra expense for a head job.

As far as the truck you're looking at, the marks on the bolts were proper procedure for torque angle adjustment required with the TTY bolts. I wouldn't have a problem with one head being repaired. SOP for a dealership or off duty Tech repair if only one head had an issue. Like any other repair, hopefully it was done correctly and you won't have to work on it right away.

I don't think there's a significant difference in difficulty between using bolts or studs except it is easier to bow-up on a torque wrench until it clicks or beeps compared to marking and inspecting the angle you twisted the bolts to.

 

Head gaskets never really fail. The tty bolts strech and the head lifts off the deck under boost.

 

Well said, reps sent!

 

Nice reply--reps when I can.

2006 F350 4X4

 

Wow! Great reply Rusty.

My thought process behind the question was that with the TTY's all you do is align the marks, but you are right. Using a click type Torque Wrench would make it relatively easy.

I forget about the click type torque wrenches because I use the old Swing bar torque wrench. I need to invest in some click type torque wrenches I suppose.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

 

If your socket has a hole for a retainer ball tracking that hole nets the same results.
Next thing to remember is you have to have nice even strokes to correctly yeild a bolt.

 

The only thing I could think of someone reusing tty bolts would be they are pre stretched. I wouldn't do it, but makes you wonder if they stretch farther?

 

Ohh they can streach all right. Right up until they break, the ya get to try and extract the broken bolt. And none of them ever break at the same amount of torque.
A real roll of the dice.