"like calculating the drag co-efficient of tassels on Aladdin's flying carpet"

Hilarious and darn near literally true comparison.

...

My other problem with this guy's thread is that his obsession with caster seems to ignore the effects of camber, tire size, tire pressure, and ride height. These things are basic alignment knowledge.

And from personal experience: the best alignment I have gotten on my van was by a guy who pointed out to me that my van's camber was making it pull one way, but the caster was making a pull the other way. It was at the edge of the spec on both measurements. I opted to pay him to get them both more toward the middle spec.

No digital cameras were involved.

 

I'd buy one of these before I tried any of that hocus-Focus


PS ... I did REAL alignments for years in a shop on a true alignment rack as well as at the track on numerous race cars with levels and string.
NASCAR Winston Weekly Racing Series Track Championship Crew Member (Dirt Track)
NASCAR Dodge Weekly Racing Series Track Championship Crew Member (Pavement)
NASCAR Whelen All American Weekly Series Track Championship Crew Member (Pavement)
NASCAR Whelen All American Weekly Series California State Championship Crew Member (Pavement)
I've worked on off-set super modifieds , sprints , midgets (dirt and pavement), late models (dirt and pavement) , Formula Atlantics , Imca Mods ( Duel in the Desert winner)
In other words , I've been around.

 

As much as I'd love to claim authorship for that quip its actually from Dr Sheldon Cooper Phd, he of The Big Bang TV series.

Very clever, hocus focus!

Every alignment is nothing but strings and levels but the uninitiated might naturally think more whiz-bang looking racks, lasers etc etc are more sophisticated and therefore more accurate.

A past NASCAR genius would spend hours "stringing a car" which not only drew spectators from the other stalls but produced a lot of very competitive cars for his team. (Name escapes me, early to mid 60's was his era.)

I'll be slow to accept any alignment or check method that doesn't include direct contact gauges or measuring devices that track a vehicles steering geometry through its steering arc. A static setting of X degrees may address factory specs, even those as wildly far ranging as E-Series but how it affects handling when in motion is much more important IMHO.

And on that topic Vettex any input about this, to wit:

-Ford's E-Series spec for caster, why so far ranging?

-Does running that suspension with added +Caster approaching 5 degrees make sense?

 

I have no idea what Ford was thinking.
Too much positive caster can cause issues with scrubbing in turns but yes . Just go with 4.5 L and a light 5 R. I'd just add/use a steering stabilizer on a van if there are still stability issues running down the highway.

 

Vettex, i'd like to have you on my race team. Any chance you're in Florida?

JWA, we still string race cars: that's not a just thing of NASCAR past.

 

RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Class C Motorhomes: wandering front

http://www.rvforum.net/SMF_forum/ind...2114#msg732114
RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Class C Motorhomes: Ford 350 chassis handling
RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Class C Motorhomes: Ford 350 chassis handling

 

Northern Ca.....whaddya run ?
Stringing cars is not something that will pass. It's cheap and it works.

 

Another issue to E-Series being a bit squirrely could be rear springs---in fact I think I'm facing this issue myself at the moment.

During strong blasts of a side wind I'm struggling to not over-correct but that sinking feeling of slightly out-of-control and no easy way to wait the event out AND avoid collisions is quite the eye opening ride, needless to say.

As a temporary fix or experiment before dumping money into refreshing the rear leaf spring packs a set of Air Lift bags were installed, those fitting between the axle tube and frame. When pressurized I notice a substantial increase in handling, none of those white knuckle moments when least expected.

My entire chassis (other than rear springs) is completely new, Hellwig sway bars both front and back, Bilstein shocks and Michelin LTX 245's all around, completely rebuilt front suspension including new urethane axle pivot and radius arm bushings complete that package.

Along with suspecting the rear springs are weak my E250 is extending body with full sized spare mounted underneath plus what might be somewhat excessive weight aft of the rear axle. Even though my GVW is 7480# as a daily driver, front weight is 3160# and rear is 4320# those numbers don't account for the "leverage effect" if I am carrying too much cargo past a certain point.

I'll keep working on this only to gain the experience and of course have a well handling van. Anything I discover including a fix or improvement would be shared here without question.

 

JWA, take and post 4 pictures and I will apply the "tool", at no extra charge.

 

I might just do that----perhaps submitting two differently configured E250's for review?

Weather is kinda horrible at the moment though---might take a few days.

 

That would be great, the more examples I can muster up the sooner/faster my theories can be debunked and I can get on with another hobby.


Theory defined in my context: "If a theory is wrong it can be proven to be wrong. But a theory that is correct may never be proven to be right".

 

Bad springs are often overlooked.
I know this sounds like overkill but.....does anyone ever corner weight the vans when there is a problem ? Odd corner weights would tell you a lot.

 

I'd need to rent or borrow a full set of individual scales to do this---its a good idea though.

There's an outside chance a former customer has these very scales---might have to hit him up when he's back from Texas picking up his new motor home---to the tune of $970K.

Wanna bet its a nice one?

 

I've never done a van
My scales are good to 6000 lbs.
what's a van weigh empty ? 5500 ?

 

In my opinion, up to this point, we have been addressing all the various causes of control upsets, and I agree there are many sources.


In the future, I predict, we will work on making the vehicle better cope with these upsets by changing one parameter. This one parameter is well known to increase stability, that of increasing caster. JMO