I have a 1993 E250 Econoline. Bought it last month. It's totally empty in the back, a clean slate and I'm converting it into a camper for a cross country road trip I'm doing this year. Anyway that's a separate topic.

It's winter here and one day it wouldn't start. Nothing was left on, and there were marks on the battery terminals showing that the van has been jumpstarted many times so I figured the battery was worn out and I got a new one. It started a few times, worked for a few days then went back to the same problem. Wouldn't start. Starter would click like it wasn't getting enough power. I thought the battery might just need topping off so I jump started it with my brother's car.

It wouldn't start even after jumping.

I'm pretty sure this van was stolen at some point in its life. It's got a damaged ignition cylinder that rotates 360 degrees without a key, and the standard steering column shifter is replaced with a floor shifter. I started thinking the damaged ignition switch was the problem, so I started taking it apart. Big OHH moment when I figured out that the key cylinder doesn't contain the electrical switch. It's actually below the key cylinder, the cylinder just actuates the electrical switch.

Anyway, before I tore anything apart, the ignition switch seemed to be intermittent, like sometimes the accessory position would turn on the radio, other times it wouldn't, and there would be no power at all in the cab. No sounds, no dome lights, nothing. The van also started making a funny noise when I pushed on the gas pedal. Like a relay was switching off and on incredibly fast. I'm uploading a video to youtube showing the noise. I think the noise was coming from the entry light controller behind the driver seat. I guessed that it was faulty wiring or a bad switch.

I measured voltage at the battery, it was 10.3V. I wasn't getting any dome lights or radio, or starter noises, or relay noises. I disconnected the actual ignition switch and tried starting the van by moving the rod back and forth. No sounds or lights at all.

Right now, there is almost no power in the cab. I did get some 0.45V readings on two of the wires that connect to the ignition switch, and some other wires that connect to something on the steering wheel. I don't know what that's all about. Logic level voltage?

Anyway, I really don't know what I'm talking about (I know computers better than I know cars. :P) but my guess is that 12V power isn't getting into the cab. Does that sound right? The other day when I was able to get accessory power and the dome lights on, I saw that the voltage meter in the dash was showing about 8V. The next day I checked and measuring directly at the battery I saw 10.3V. What can I check next?

EDIT: Youtube video highlighting the problem:

 

First off, you should be reading appox 13.4+ volts off the battery terminals.

Disconnect the negative cable and get a direct reading off the battery. If It's like you posted (10.3vdc), then you might want to put it on a charger to get it up to the correct DC voltage.

One of two things are causing the low voltage, first, the alternator is not doing a proper job with supplying the battery with the correct voltage. If you can, have it tested, or replace the alternator.

Second, if the alternator is working properly, then you have a major voltage draw. In your video, there is a noise in the back, as you said, and you need to find out what that is. It's not, or could be the fuel pump(s) that is making that noise, but a normal fuel pump is not that loud. When you hit the key on to run, the fuel pump will come on for a couple of seconds, to prime the line to 35-45 psi.

Also, with the radio not coming on, and the dome light, this could be caused by the low dc voltage that the battery is reading, IE: not enough voltage in-put.

(you posted a lot of problems in one post )

Next, you write about the column shiftier being moved to a floor shiftier, correct? Try this, move the shiftier to Neutral the next time you try to start it, Your '93 should have a E4OD transmission, and that has a Neutral Safety switch on the drivers side, that is controlled by the shiftier cable, sometimes that gets flowed up, and moving the shiftier around, or setting it to Neutral will allow it to start (It's a safety cut-out, if you will)

When you turn the key to run, then start, that in turns pushes a rod that runs along the steering column to the "ignition starter switch" that's mounted on the lower section of the column shaft. There could be a problem with the starter switch. Of course the way your steering column looks, some one, whom didn't really know what to do, really co-bashed it. I would also be looking for a new column, to replace the mess you have. *if your near me, I got one out of '94* not trying to sell, just letting you know. A pick and pull might have one, although, our era of vans are getting slim for the pickings.

Try the shiftier moving first, to see if it will start, if there is enough voltage or charge the battery first, and then get back here with the results.

You should also hear a clicking sound from the starter relay switch, when you turn the key to start, with enough voltage, and NSS in proper position.

I can only type for so long, and this is long enough
Plus, it's no sense going into other things with out trying the above items first.

PS: Good video, nicely edited, to show the major problems. So, if you can get that good of a video, then you should have no problem getting this van running

 

One of your main problems may be the starter itself. One of my vehicles exhibited similar problems and my mechanic discovered that the starter was drawing over 800 amps; slow start for a few times, then a dead battery.

What was happening was that the battery was being drained through the starter. Something is causing a current draw according to your ammeter.

I am not a mechanic. Take this FWIW.

 

Thank you Wildman for the advice and your kind words, and James for your insignt. You both gave me plenty of ideas to work with!

I charged the battery for about an hour and got it up to 13.2V. Re-did the rusted positive battery terminal (nasty green corroded wires!). Moved from park to neutral, and tried to start. Actually got accessory power this time, got a click from the starter but no start.

I tried testing that the starter was getting a full 12V, so I put one end of my multimeter probes on the battery's negative terminal, and the other to the negative terminal on the starter. Then I moved the key to the start position and the van actually started!

I thought we might have created some electrical path to the starter that gave it the extra oomph it needed to start, so I quickly turned off the van, removed the multimeter wires, and tried to start again. It started again.

I didn't see anything I changed that could have helped get it starting again, from the attempt without the multimeter to the attempt with. My brother told me sometimes the starter can seize up, and he's seen people take a hammer to their starter go get it loose again. This whole issue started when it got cold and snowy... Do I need a new starter?

I found a diagram showing the wiring of the starting system. The van definately has a safety switch built into the transmission. The switch is closed in either park or neutral.

Yeah the column is messed up, but I'm not worried about it because I've got plans for a push start button!

After it had been running for a little while and the awe wore off, I did a quick test to see if the alternator was doing it's job. I started the van again, all accessories off, and checked the battery voltage. It was at 15.8V. I turned on every accessory I could think of, and the voltage went up to 16.1V. I don't know if that's good or bad?

Oh one thing I noticed, on the dash it's showing a battery symbol with "AMP". Is that saying the van isn't getting enough current from the battery? I'm still not sure if I cleaned the corrosion on the wires well enough. Baking soda and vinegar did almost nothing to help, I had better luck with a file.

 

Do you have a digital multimeter? If not, a cheap one from Harbor Freight is less than $10.

Now, turn off everything in the van. Put the meter on 20v DC voltage scale and touch the negative probe to the negative battery terminal, and the positive probe to GROUND, something substantial, like a frame bolt or the motor block. Then move the positive probe to the vehicle body sheet metal screws...try a few of them.

Next, turn on something that works, like a domelight even if its dim, plug in a cigarette lighter, or turn on the radio, even if no sound comes out.

Then do all those tests again.

Then please report to us what the readings are.

(hint: looking for a faulty vehicle ground that will show itself)

 

The AMP light is showing because it's telling you that the alternator is Not charging the battery, But, with the volt meter, your showing 15-16 volts.
Try revving up the engine a couple of time to see if the light goes out.

Check the condition of the belt, if the belt is slipping, the alternator will not provide a full charge under load, plus after you run the engine for some time, you could run into over heating, as the water pump is also "slipping"

The belt in kept in tension with the tensioner pulley, self-adjusted, unless the spring is not providing enough tension on the pulley.

You must remember, the Battery runs the vehicle, all accessories, all electronics/ignition systems, Not the alternator, the alternator Only "re-charges" the battery.

As I wrote above, a very good and not 10's of thousand of dollars in repairs, would be to replace the corroded cables, this should fix a lot of the problems your having at this time.

If the starter is starting as it should, then you might not have a problem with that, and then again, it's a $100 part, and if that don't break your bank, then it's a good investment, and reliable repair.

Also, now that you have part I done, what about the other problems you had in the video?? Did some of the other problems go away now that you have a fully charged, correct voltage battery??

 

Thanks for the input, Brian. I like your van and it's theme. "There... are... four... lights!" Your headlights reminded me of that, haha. I do have a digital multimeter. I did the test today, everything was 0.00V:

Everything off test

• Negative probe to negative battery terminal, positive probe to the motor block: 0.00V.
• Negative probe to negative battery terminal, positive probe to various sheet metal screws: 0.00V.

Radio on test

• Negative probe to negative battery terminal, positive probe to the motor block: 0.00V.
• Negative probe to negative battery terminal, positive probe to various sheet metal screws: 0.00V.

Yeah, the AMP light does go out after some engine revs.

I'll be checking this soon. Another problem I'm having is that one of the pulleys(?) is high pitched squeaky and loud.



Ok so I have to keep the battery real happy. There is an extra battery under the hood. It is disconnected. What is that extra battery usually used for? The van used to be a telephone/DSL company van, if that helps.

I bought the van pretty inexpensive, so I figured there would be some repairs needed. I'm going for rock-solid reliability here so I'll definitely be replacing the cable, and the starter if it is still having trouble.

The other problems were the noisy box with relay behind the driver seat (interior light timer I belive), the noisy hazard light relay, the intermittent ignition switch, and the faulty key cylinder. I'm working on they key cylinder now but that's not an electrical issue.

Other than that, yes the other problems went away after having a fully charged, correct voltage battery, with a tight terminal connection! It can only get better from here!

 

whoops, accidental poast

 

Yes, you need to keep Mr. Battery very happy, and supplied with a good re-charge. That operates everything on the vehicle.

That box/relay you speak of behind the seat, could be an 'Inverter'
Most service vehicles like this, run 110vac inverters on board, and the 2nd battery is used to power the inverter, that way if the inverter is over used, and drains the 2nd battery, you still have the main battery for starting.
There should be a relay switch between the 2 battery's that prevents the 2nd battery from drawing off the first, but then allows recharging.

I'm all for that, done that with many vehicles over the years.

I'm not sure what you were trying with the multimeter test, so I'll let Brian handle that with you.
The way you tested, you will get 0.0v's Unless your trying to check for Ohm's ????

 

Not to step on anybody's wanger, but the part about the battery running everything is incorrect. The battery's primary purpose is simply to start the engine, it is the alternator that provides power for the ignition, lights, heater, accessories, etc. It does act as a filter to smooth out the alternator's output as well.

It is important that the battery is in good condition, they are often abused, and neglected. A defective alternator can ruin a good battery, and the reverse is also true. This kind of electrical ping pong can get expensive, so it pays to check and troubleshoot both carefully.

A simple voltmeter can save $$$ and a lot of aggravation, so can a $25 battery charger. For some reason people do not want to charge a battery for more than a half hour or so, and then it's back to the torture test. If it reads 10.5 it may be a shorted cell and the battery is junk. If not, it would be very happy to sit overnight or 24 hours at a low 2 or 4 amp charge.

Read this over, and follow the main page links it's pretty comprehensive:

http://www.aa1car.com/library/charging_checks.htm

 

Yes, he got zero volts which is good and correct.

If there is a voltage reading this way, (example, 2.8volts, then 3.5volts) it means there is a voltage drop (and probably a corroded connector) somewhere in the system between the battery and the vehicle ground, such as at the negative battery cable....or at the engine block or vehicle harness ground.

The test showed good so the group can move on to suggest other tests.

There could STILL be a bad connector or ground somewhere, but we know where it is NOT.

Ohms readings in most cases need to be done with no DC present on the circuits under test, but voltage readings done in this way are performed on live circuits.

 

Your not stepping on anything I got.

But I do understand, and I did read the posted link.

The battery is part of the electrical system, with the alternator being the majority part.

Per this original topic, OP tossed in a new battery, and was experiencing problems, which were related to very low DC voltage at the battery terminals.
My point was to get the OP to get the battery charged up first. And keep it charged. And not to run the engine for a few minutes, but for a longer period.

And, yes, I know that the battery is no more than a 'storage bank' for electrical power, adsorbing the functions from the alternators output.

Future posts, I will not keep it on a less simpler scale on my reply's.


Got ya, now I understand this test

 

Here are the contents box I was talking about before. The relay must have been the noisy thing:





The board plugs into this:



Here's the box. I accidentally broke it:



Here's a look at the starter area. See this connection on lower left?



A closer look:


What is that connection for?

 

The last 2 pictures - that's the O2 sensor. Looks like it's time to change that out before the CEL comes on.