Transmission Question
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Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,333
Likes: 1
From: St. Louis, Mo.
Transmission Question
For all the trans guys out there- I have no idea & this is probaly a dumb question, but why doesnt someone build an upgraded 5 or 6 gear trans for out 7.3 trucks or is that even possible ?
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 26,966
Likes: 50
From: Texas
Sure it's possible. I've got a 6 speed behind my 7.3 
For the 2 pedal crowd, it comes down to, yes it can be done, but the cost of development and production means not enough will sell to make it a worthwhile venture.
Besides, you're likely talking about adding intermediate gears, not changing the final overdrive ratio (much) so I'm not really sure how much of an actual improvement you would see from doing this.
For the 2 pedal crowd, it comes down to, yes it can be done, but the cost of development and production means not enough will sell to make it a worthwhile venture.
Besides, you're likely talking about adding intermediate gears, not changing the final overdrive ratio (much) so I'm not really sure how much of an actual improvement you would see from doing this.
Butt-Head
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 9,405
Likes: 2,894
From: Reed Point, MT
A lower-ratio first gear (in the 3.5-3.75:1 range would be nice), lower the second gear ratio slightly (1.7:1-ish), and make the new 5th gear somewhere in the .85:1 range.
The gear ratios would then be 3.75, 2.48, 1.7, 1, .85, .75:1 Oh, and lower the absurdly-high reverse to about 3.25:1 whilst in there. Yes, I know what it would take planetary-wise to make the ratios and what is/is not possible there concerning ratios but these are just pipe dreams anyway.
The gear ratios would then be 3.75, 2.48, 1.7, 1, .85, .75:1 Oh, and lower the absurdly-high reverse to about 3.25:1 whilst in there. Yes, I know what it would take planetary-wise to make the ratios and what is/is not possible there concerning ratios but these are just pipe dreams anyway.
Butt-Head
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 9,405
Likes: 2,894
From: Reed Point, MT
The automatic trucks suffer the same fate as the 6-speeds. If the gear split between 5th and 6th was the same as 4th and 5th it would be MUCH nicer. The 3-4 shift in the automatics is just as dismal.
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 26,966
Likes: 50
From: Texas
As for reverse, I hear you. I never understood why Ford seems to love the 30 mph reverse gear the auto's seem to have. The ZF reverse is 5.23:1 and I think that seems to work just fine.
Butt-Head
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 9,405
Likes: 2,894
From: Reed Point, MT
It's only dismal when towing heavy. And actually, I take more exception to the 3-4 shift (or 2-3 if you count it as a 5 speed plus granny). Too big a jump there for my liking, but seeing as how I have 6 gears forward, it's kind of hard to complain too much.
As for reverse, I hear you. I never understood why Ford seems to love the 30 mph reverse gear the auto's seem to have. The ZF reverse is 5.23:1 and I think that seems to work just fine.
As for reverse, I hear you. I never understood why Ford seems to love the 30 mph reverse gear the auto's seem to have. The ZF reverse is 5.23:1 and I think that seems to work just fine.
If anyone here has ever driven a Duramax (I made a good living repairing those for close to a decade), the Allison, while severely over-rated, has the perfect gear splits when paired with the diesel. Full-onion shifts resulted in a nearly clockwork 3300 to 2700 RPM upshift for every gear. Add in the fact that you'd need to be in neutral, downhill, and with a headwind to back up faster than 15 MPH and you've got the perfect gear ratios.
I've done 36 MPH in reverse. That's just retarded. Shifting to low range just to back up without burning up the transmission makes no sense to me either.
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Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,333
Likes: 1
From: St. Louis, Mo.
Four of the 7.3L pickups at work have 6 speeds but I don't drive them much. My F-550 has one, but it has 4:88 gears and I never really use 2-3 gear that much so I don't pay much attention. However, it weighs 17,500+ lbs. and the hills around here make the whole 6-5 downshift thing really annoying but the 4-5 is terrific.
If anyone here has ever driven a Duramax (I made a good living repairing those for close to a decade), the Allison, while severely over-rated, has the perfect gear splits when paired with the diesel. Full-onion shifts resulted in a nearly clockwork 3300 to 2700 RPM upshift for every gear. Add in the fact that you'd need to be in neutral, downhill, and with a headwind to back up faster than 15 MPH and you've got the perfect gear ratios.
I've done 36 MPH in reverse. That's just retarded. Shifting to low range just to back up without burning up the transmission makes no sense to me either.
If anyone here has ever driven a Duramax (I made a good living repairing those for close to a decade), the Allison, while severely over-rated, has the perfect gear splits when paired with the diesel. Full-onion shifts resulted in a nearly clockwork 3300 to 2700 RPM upshift for every gear. Add in the fact that you'd need to be in neutral, downhill, and with a headwind to back up faster than 15 MPH and you've got the perfect gear ratios.
I've done 36 MPH in reverse. That's just retarded. Shifting to low range just to back up without burning up the transmission makes no sense to me either.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Norco,CA
I would be very nice if some one would do it. I like how the 5R110 works much better also. But there final gear is the same as ours.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 9,293
Likes: 10
From: Parker, CO
It can be done, just really expensive.
Buy a 5r110, adapter plate, and PCS stand alone controller along with wiring harness. Install.
Connect PCS to the trans. Run the appropriate trans tuning. Make adjustments as necessary. Done.
PCS alone will cost you nearly a grand. And a good 5r110 isn't cheap either. Then there's that damn adapter plate. Think the cheapest I saw one a few years ago was around $750, if they are still around anymore.
So on top of an already more expensive 5-speed over the 4-speed, you're going to spend even more money on top of it to make the conversion. Hence why most people don't do it, just doesn't seem worth the money for 1 extra gear tossed in there. Especially when you can spend the money on a fully built 4r100 and have a completely bullet proof trans. $6K-$7K for the conversion, or $3K-$4K for a bullet proof 4r100?
Buy a 5r110, adapter plate, and PCS stand alone controller along with wiring harness. Install.
Connect PCS to the trans. Run the appropriate trans tuning. Make adjustments as necessary. Done.
PCS alone will cost you nearly a grand. And a good 5r110 isn't cheap either. Then there's that damn adapter plate. Think the cheapest I saw one a few years ago was around $750, if they are still around anymore.
So on top of an already more expensive 5-speed over the 4-speed, you're going to spend even more money on top of it to make the conversion. Hence why most people don't do it, just doesn't seem worth the money for 1 extra gear tossed in there. Especially when you can spend the money on a fully built 4r100 and have a completely bullet proof trans. $6K-$7K for the conversion, or $3K-$4K for a bullet proof 4r100?
Thread Starter
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Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,333
Likes: 1
From: St. Louis, Mo.
It can be done, just really expensive.
Buy a 5r110, adapter plate, and PCS stand alone controller along with wiring harness. Install.
Connect PCS to the trans. Run the appropriate trans tuning. Make adjustments as necessary. Done.
PCS alone will cost you nearly a grand. And a good 5r110 isn't cheap either. Then there's that damn adapter plate. Think the cheapest I saw one a few years ago was around $750, if they are still around anymore.
So on top of an already more expensive 5-speed over the 4-speed, you're going to spend even more money on top of it to make the conversion. Hence why most people don't do it, just doesn't seem worth the money for 1 extra gear tossed in there. Especially when you can spend the money on a fully built 4r100 and have a completely bullet proof trans. $6K-$7K for the conversion, or $3K-$4K for a bullet proof 4r100?
Buy a 5r110, adapter plate, and PCS stand alone controller along with wiring harness. Install.
Connect PCS to the trans. Run the appropriate trans tuning. Make adjustments as necessary. Done.
PCS alone will cost you nearly a grand. And a good 5r110 isn't cheap either. Then there's that damn adapter plate. Think the cheapest I saw one a few years ago was around $750, if they are still around anymore.
So on top of an already more expensive 5-speed over the 4-speed, you're going to spend even more money on top of it to make the conversion. Hence why most people don't do it, just doesn't seem worth the money for 1 extra gear tossed in there. Especially when you can spend the money on a fully built 4r100 and have a completely bullet proof trans. $6K-$7K for the conversion, or $3K-$4K for a bullet proof 4r100?
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,793
Likes: 50
ever looked into... gear vendor?
Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,695
Likes: 2,616
From: SE Florida
Is it practical? Not even close. HERE is why.
Thread Starter
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Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,333
Likes: 1
From: St. Louis, Mo.
Tim- No I havent but will
Mark - Thanks for the insight - I had a notion it would be pretty expensive - Guess I'll keep mine the way it is till it gives me a reason to upgrade to a HD trans.
Of course it's possible. ANYTHING is possible. If you will give me enough time and money I can install ANY transmission you want. I can even design one with any number of gears that you want.
Is it practical? Not even close. HERE is why.
Is it practical? Not even close. HERE is why.
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,793
Likes: 50