That is dang good idear!

And speaking of pictures, if you can't figure out here try http://imgur.com

 

Much will be done differently if I do this again, pictures being one of them. I took a bunch of pictures during removal, only thing I didn't take pictures of was the electrical components I wasn't touching. "I just have to un-hook these three harnesses, these two grounds, put them over here and remember where they went", then upon install connectors and wires started crumbling and I had no idea where they went or what they were for. It offered me a fine learning experience though! 4 days later I was back to where I started. Who knew 12 wires could be so vexing. It didn't help that I bought a new starter relay that was DOA and passed constant power through to the IGN side of the relay (thus backfeeding everything engine related when the key is in in the off position). 20 minutes later I was wondering why my choke and coil were smoking. Happy thanksgiving!

Anyway, the more I think about it, I think the plugs were in. Re-reading that part of the book, I can't believe I would have left it without being sure. I'll confirm tomorrow.

Good advice on the vacuum. I will look into a canister. Btw, as I know less about the smog system than I do about engines, was it hooked into the vacuum system? was the canister associated with it a vacuum reservoir as well? I figured it was some kind of condenser for vapors, but if it was part of the vacuum system than removing it may have affected over all vacuum.

I have checked the distributor and it seems fine. One part that I really don't like is the way the cap spacer mates to the cap. Evidently when motorcraft built these dizzys they made them to fit several engine types and the 460 needs a cap adapter to fit the bigger cap and rotor. It may be normal, but it seems warped and can actually wobble. I had a couple rubber wedge tile spacers shoved in to keep it stable. Did confirm spark at all plugs though.

I think the next step is draining the oil, dropping the pan and seeing what lies at the bottom. Also pulling the oil pump and checking it for proper operation. BTW, I am using a rear sump oil pan swap kit from Ford Racing I believe (either there or from Summit) that came with a pick up/gasket/dipstick. Is there a good way to bench test these pumps?

Thanks a ton for your time.

 

I just realized that was probably a stupid question. Put it in a vice, put the pick up tube in oil, turn the shaft?

 

Not really a dumb question. You can pull the pump pop off the cover and check the clearances with a feeler gauge. It's also a good way to check and make sure there is no debris in the pump. Not a bad idea to run it in a bucket though. be aware it'll push oil out a surprising distance.

As far as your smog parts go. Most of the engine related smog stuff has it's fingers in your vacuum system and exhaust system. If you don't live in a smog state you may as well study up on it and remove that detritus. It is just one more part to loose vacuum.

 

Ok, first off, I realized I didn't answer one of co425's questions. The initial timing I went with was around 10 degrees advanced. I had reasoning for this but further confusion makes it hard to recall. I have a pre 1972 timing set, which I believe means it is not retarded several degrees. My cam specs are in the photo link below: (thanks for the imgur suggestion!)



Now, i couldn't interpret these values to any certainty (probably should have done that homework Basically, I figured that because all the BTDC values were higher than the ATDC values, that meant I would be advancing the timing for this cam. I also read several other posts from folks with the same or similar cam/application and it seemed like I was getting values anywhere from 18-40 degrees advance. I basically got frustrated and decided to wing it and advance/retard the timing from around 18 degrees until the exhaust stopped glowing and the engine started sounding better. I realize now, with the diminishing oil pressure and loosening of rocker arms etc., that I really can't be sure what I was hearing. Either way, 38 degrees (with vacuum advance hooked up) ended up being the best I was able to get it to run

I just dropped the oil pan and had some interesting observations. The oil looks good for the most part. Definitely darker, but I think for a new rebuild this is to be expected?

One thing I found interesting that may not be at all, is that when I turned loose the oil pick up, another pint of oil came out of the screen. the way the truck is parked, gravity should have caused the oil to run out of it. This may just be the nature of the pump and it means nothing, but thought I would mention it.

Oh, and before I dropped the oil pan, I cranked the engine with dizzy cap removed and took a video of the rocker arms and there was no discernible oil squirting out. Though there was at some point as they were all bathed in darkish oil.

Photo of rocker arm after removing valve cover. Not much to see here but thought I would throw it in:



Photo of oil from under rocker arms smeared on the back of my hand:



Photo of the front depression (below oil pump) of my oil pan:



This last photo is where it gets interesting. You have to ignore a lot of what you see in the picture as there is a bunch of overspray from the painting of the pan, but that lovely aurora borealis of white has me intrigued. I think it is the result of water having a party with oil in the middle of my oil pump. I'm not sure if this is logical, but my theory is that some dip **** left a rag stuffed into the hole for the dizzy and worked on his truck during a storm. Water soaked the rag and dripped into the oil pump. The water oil mixture became air entrained when it was whipped together by the gears of the pump. Air in hydraulics=compressibility=loss of siphon? Its a theory anyway. Anybody have any experience with this?

 

Haha! just benched tested oil pump using the bucket method (having not read last post from co425) and yeah, that sucker is impressive. I had the shaft in a cordless drill and it took several rotations to get it primed but once it was full, I felt like a rough neck that just struck black gold! I'm going to take one of these suckers and adapt it for my next water gun fight

Oil pump seems fine. I'm going to open her up and make sure there are no obstructions as per suggestion. If all looks good I think I'll mount the pump back up, put the filter back on, a bucket of oil on my jack under the pick up tube, attach an extension to the drive shaft and see where the drill shoots it. If I'm not mistaken it should be pouring down from around the main bearings and I should see something at or near the rocker arms from the lifters?

 

ok, pump is fine. .006 between lobes and less than .005 between lobes and housing. gotta go to bed now.

 

*gear and housing. you probably gather that though

 

Providing that your machine shop degreed the cam correctly you should be at 6 degrees btdc initial.

It looks like your oil pump is fine. How does the shaft look?

Yes you should see oil come out of the rockers when you turn the pump with a drill.

As far as oil color goes it's all subjective. It depends on how dark it started. I'd be concerned with chunks of metal in your oil. A slight metal partical shimmer on a new engine is normal. That's why you change the oil after cam break in.

 

If that is the case (timing wise) there is something haywire going on, because I couldn't even get it to fire there. I'm going to review how all that came together. It seems to me there was only one way to mess up this part of the build. I mean there are timing marks to line up and a key way that doesn't let you put anything else on that isn't lined up. Unless I'm missing something?

Will ask the machine shop about the cam.

Oil looks better than I thought. There actually isn't any noticeable glimmer in the pan. The only glimmer I saw was sitting on the top of the head.

I'm going to proceed with the oil test I described last night. Then put a dab of paint on the push rods and make sure they rotate as the engine turns. At the same time I'm going to try and measure valve spring compression (though I'm not clear yet how to do that).

Lastly I'm going to dissect the oil filter and make sure it didn't eat a cam lobe. If all that checks out, I'm going to thank my lucky stars and assume the cam is intact, then trouble shoot the timing.

Does my logic check out?

 

double check the timing marks on your crank pulley using a piston stop that threads into the spark plug hole.

You think you are at 10 deg BTDC ign timing but maybe you are at 0?

piston stop will confirm

 

update:

Machine shop says they put the galley plugs in so that is a relief. As far as degree-ing the cam, they had no recollection. I'm thinking the cam was supposed to be a plug and play? Make sure it is lined up with the timing marks as away you go?

When I was getting ready to put the oil pump back on for the test, I noticed something odd. It may be nothing as it seems to be a dead end hole, but underneath the collar of casting, where the oil pump shaft sits in the oil pump, there was a collection of metal shavings


I dug them out and here's a picture of them



Now, the pump seems to work fine with the exception that the inner gear has a little friction (feels almost like turning the rotor in a distributor where the magnet makes it flutter). Unless someone tells me this is normal, I'm going to go ahead and replace the oil pump

 

again, the shaft looks fine. The only wear it shows is some scratches around the base where it was rubbing against the casting collar I referred to earlier

 

Just lost this post so it is going to be more brief than before (probably to your benefit Pictures from the oil filter surgery:





I blotted the paper material with a clean paper towel and checked both for shimmer. To my eye there is very little.

Before blotting, I scraped the inner folds of the long one with a magnet and rinsed away oil and non-ferrous materials with super clean. You see the results in the other 2 pictures.

With what I am finding so far, I am going to proceed with the on vehicle pump test, valve spring and push rod tests. I am also going to pop off one of the main bearing caps and make sure the bearing looks good. If all checks out, I am going to keep the cam and move on with the timing issue. Does this logic check out with your experiences?

 

Just saw the post about the piston stop. That is a good idea. Thank you.