BRAKE PROBLEMS (ALL DRUM BRAKES)
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Freshman User
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 39
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From: Homestead
BRAKE PROBLEMS (ALL DRUM BRAKES)
The brake pedal on my 1964 truck is pretty hard brake. It brakes if you put extra pressure than I would guess is required. I cleaned and refurbished the master cylinder, we filled and purged the brakes to see if that was the case. The brake fluid would gush out on all four brakes so that should mean the lines aren't clogged. Is there anything else in missing? Any thoughts or guidance from you guys I'd gladly appreciate it!
Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,325
Likes: 14
From: Island Southeast Alaska
A little more info please. Have you ever
drove a rig with manual brakes much?
Are the shoes and or drums glazed over?
Can you lock up and slide any wheels at all?
What kind of pad lining material is on the
shoes? Can you remove a front drum and show
us a pic or two of the lining and drum? All I can
think of is that the brakes are glazed over. Did you
have any oil or fluid ever leak or get onto the brakes?
This would cause them to glaze and almost be useless.
Axle lube, brake fluid or any oil could do this.
Here is how to post pic's on FTE
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...ure-guide.html
drove a rig with manual brakes much?
Are the shoes and or drums glazed over?
Can you lock up and slide any wheels at all?
What kind of pad lining material is on the
shoes? Can you remove a front drum and show
us a pic or two of the lining and drum? All I can
think of is that the brakes are glazed over. Did you
have any oil or fluid ever leak or get onto the brakes?
This would cause them to glaze and almost be useless.
Axle lube, brake fluid or any oil could do this.
Here is how to post pic's on FTE
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...ure-guide.html
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 19,311
Likes: 97
From: Waterloo, Iowa
Hopefully sometime this week will be going through the drum brakes on my 64 and will post some pics. Front axle first. So far have replaced M/C, all hard lines and brake hoses.
They are still pretty weak. Am guessing glazed worn shoes and wheel cylinders stuffed with crud. Maybe not this bad, we'll see!
They are still pretty weak. Am guessing glazed worn shoes and wheel cylinders stuffed with crud. Maybe not this bad, we'll see!
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 19,311
Likes: 97
From: Waterloo, Iowa
Mind if I use your thread for some illustration? Since I have a 64. These shoes are on "backwards". Driver's side shown. They've been that way for sometime. Twern't me that done it.
Does it matter? Well I think the fine folks at Bendix knew what they were doing. For one thing they may not apply as much braking force, and the front brakes provide most of the stopping power. The self-adjusters may not work as advertised either, not sure. This adjuster here is froze up solid. Luckily there's no ridge on the drum, it came off with little trouble.
The "short" shoe or primary belongs towards the front on post '48 Ford Trucks as I understand it. I peeled back the dust cover to see if there's any crud in the wheel cylinder and it "looks original" IYKWIMAITTYD. R&R that tomorrow.
Does it matter? Well I think the fine folks at Bendix knew what they were doing. For one thing they may not apply as much braking force, and the front brakes provide most of the stopping power. The self-adjusters may not work as advertised either, not sure. This adjuster here is froze up solid. Luckily there's no ridge on the drum, it came off with little trouble.
The "short" shoe or primary belongs towards the front on post '48 Ford Trucks as I understand it. I peeled back the dust cover to see if there's any crud in the wheel cylinder and it "looks original" IYKWIMAITTYD. R&R that tomorrow.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 19,311
Likes: 97
From: Waterloo, Iowa
Ok, looking at the self-adjusters. Usually, brake parts are sold as a set - one axle. Makes sense, right?
Well apparently the self-adjuster kit manufacturers are having none of that. They are sold Right Front and Right Rear. Next, there's no assurance that my existing brake setup is correct, they certainly weren't working. I can figure this out OK despite my headache, but also thinking "why bother?"
It wouldn't bother me to leave out the cable entirely - prone to breakage anyway and really f#%*¥ing things up in there - and just adjust the brakes manually as required. Is this doable, or does the adjusting cable have to be installed?
Well apparently the self-adjuster kit manufacturers are having none of that. They are sold Right Front and Right Rear. Next, there's no assurance that my existing brake setup is correct, they certainly weren't working. I can figure this out OK despite my headache, but also thinking "why bother?"
It wouldn't bother me to leave out the cable entirely - prone to breakage anyway and really f#%*¥ing things up in there - and just adjust the brakes manually as required. Is this doable, or does the adjusting cable have to be installed?
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Lead Gopher
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 10,056
Likes: 1,611
From: Seattle
If the cable snaps but doesn't wipe anything out the brakes do still work. They would just need to be manually adjusted. So, you should be fine removing them as far as I know. Liability wise, it's all on you, though.
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Senior User
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 307
Likes: 0
From: Northern California
You can remove the cable and bracket however you have to have the correct spring to go across the star adjuster to keep the adjuster from moving until you use the brake spoon to adjust. That's the detente you feel with the brake spoon.
No spring the brakes will not stay in adjustment, they could tighten up or loosen up. Be careful, if you're not sure take it to a brake shop. The correct spring has to be there.
Good luck............
Lead Gopher
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 10,056
Likes: 1,611
From: Seattle
You can remove the cable and bracket however you have to have the correct spring to go across the star adjuster to keep the adjuster from moving until you use the brake spoon to adjust. That's the detente you feel with the brake spoon.
No spring the brakes will not stay in adjustment, they could tighten up or loosen up. Be careful, if you're not sure take it to a brake shop. The correct spring has to be there.
Good luck............
No spring the brakes will not stay in adjustment, they could tighten up or loosen up. Be careful, if you're not sure take it to a brake shop. The correct spring has to be there.
Good luck............
You quoted me, but I'm not the one asking the questions. I know it will need a different spring across the bottom of the shoes. That's the liability part and it is all on him. If he plows right through someone and splits their car in half front to back I'll just ask to see pictures.
.
Lead Gopher
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 10,056
Likes: 1,611
From: Seattle
What TBird said is true, too, as long as your adjusters aren't frozen up. If they are frozen up then manually or automatically adjusting them won't work. And they won't loosen or tighten on their own, either.
Talk about stating the obvious, but on a pulic forum it probably doesn't hurt for those who come along and read this ten years from now....and then reply to it.
Don't REPLY ten years from now. I'm only kidding, for Steve's sake!
.
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 307
Likes: 0
From: Northern California
You quoted me, but I'm not the one asking the questions. I know it will need a different spring across the bottom of the shoes. That's the liability part and it is all on him. If he plows right through someone and splits their car in half front to back I'll just ask to see pictures..
have a good one................
Lead Gopher
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 10,056
Likes: 1,611
From: Seattle
Thanks. I'm the idiot that pays my hard-earned money to answer questions for other people. I know, makes no sense at all. To me, either.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 19,311
Likes: 97
From: Waterloo, Iowa
Well it's not like the "professionals" necessarily do things absolutely correct either. Both front shoes on both axles were installed backwards - so they were consistently wrong at least.
I wondered about the spring for the self adjuster. To be clear I was only talking about disabling the automatic feature, that is prone to hazards anyway. If the cable breaks, it often gets jammed between the drum and shoe. Not a super deal there either.
They'd still be perfectly adjustable for best pedal. But I will go ahead and "do it right" for now. Near as I can determine, the self adjust lever in all cases regardless of axle expands the shoe (when backing up) by ratcheting the adjuster wheel 1 click in the downward direction. Seems simple enough.
I wondered about the spring for the self adjuster. To be clear I was only talking about disabling the automatic feature, that is prone to hazards anyway. If the cable breaks, it often gets jammed between the drum and shoe. Not a super deal there either.
They'd still be perfectly adjustable for best pedal. But I will go ahead and "do it right" for now. Near as I can determine, the self adjust lever in all cases regardless of axle expands the shoe (when backing up) by ratcheting the adjuster wheel 1 click in the downward direction. Seems simple enough.