steerling 10.25 posi question
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steerling 10.25 posi question
hey so I put that 4.10 posi in my truck and theres a slight howling/squiking noise coming from the rear end and the speedo is all funky now, I pulled the cover off and theres no sign of any wear on anything the gears look just like they did when I put it in, but the bottom of the housing has a small amount of fine silver metal shavings, could this be the diff bearings? I heard that a little play in them can cause the speedo to go off and some noise too.
Elder User
Joined: Feb 2008
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From: North Bend
Went to a driveline shop and talked with this old timer that said check the pinion nut, they work loose because of the design with the crush washer.
By the time I checked it it was darn near finger tight! Look up the specs for torque, its higher than most wrenches go. But not hard with a 5 or 10 foot pipe a some weight.
(10 feet of leverage plus 10 pounds of weight at the far end makes 100 foot-lbs, add more weight for more torque.)
-Joshua
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hey so I think I figured out what the problem is, I went from a 3.55 open to a 4.10 trak lok out of another truck. when I put it in I had to really force it in the rear end with the 2 spacers on the sides of the diff. it took me almost a half hour to pry it out, I then measured the distance from side to side of the open to the posi and theres about 3/16th of an inch difference with the posi being wider. where can I find what the preload should be on it?
Logistics Pro
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From: Mojave, Ca
I have a lot of experience with rear ends. Toyota 8", Dana 44, Ford 8.8, etc. Its very difficult to preload the carrier bearings too much. For example, Dana uses a tool that actually bends the center section slightly in order to get the carrier in then the tool is released. If I were you, I'd check the pattern on the gears and see if its acceptable. Google ring and pinion patterns for examples. Normally, howling rear ends are caused by the gears not set up correctly. The difference between a good pattern and a bad pattern is about 0.002". Its not something you can "guess" on.
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Ok that makes more sense. But why is the posi wider than the open diff? The posi is a stock posi out of another 93 f250. And the open is out of my 93 f250. And why is it so tight, I think if I had different size thrust washers it would work. And I switched everything over the exact way it was in the other truck so why would the gear mesh be off?
Logistics Pro
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From: Mojave, Ca
There are small variations in machining of the housing, ring and pinion, and the carriers. If you look at the end side of gear side of the pinion, theres probably some numbers scribbed into it with a etching pen. Thats the number (usually in thousandths of an inch) of shims that need to be added or subtracted to get close to a good pattern. You cant just swap gears from one axle to another axle without checking the pattern and adjusting the shims. Adjusting the patterns not an easy process and you'll need a shop press, bearing splitters, micrometers, and a dial-indicator and a few other specialty tools. Honestly, without investing alot of money in tools, the easiest thing would be to swap the gears back into the original axle and swap the whole axle under your truck. The tolerances for a ring and pinion are extremely tight and critical.
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Yea I know all about the tools and stuff I'm just curious to know why if this was out of the exact same year make model and it's all stock why I can't just swap it over. I get with having new gears and center sections you need to measure everything but being stock it should just need stock posi thrust washers right? I don't see how I'd need to measure everything again when it's going Into the same housing
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Yea I know all about the tools and stuff I'm just curious to know why if this was out of the exact same year make model and it's all stock why I can't just swap it over. I get with having new gears and center sections you need to measure everything but being stock it should just need stock posi thrust washers right? I don't see how I'd need to measure everything again when it's going Into the same housing
There are small variations in machining of the housing, ring and pinion, and the carriers. If you look at the end side of gear side of the pinion, theres probably some numbers scribbed into it with a etching pen. Thats the number (usually in thousandths of an inch) of shims that need to be added or subtracted to get close to a good pattern. You cant just swap gears from one axle to another axle without checking the pattern and adjusting the shims. Adjusting the patterns not an easy process and you'll need a shop press, bearing splitters, micrometers, and a dial-indicator and a few other specialty tools. Honestly, without investing alot of money in tools, the easiest thing would be to swap the gears back into the original axle and swap the whole axle under your truck. The tolerances for a ring and pinion are extremely tight and critical.
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The first thing to do already got goofed. 
When you pull a carrier for a swap the first thing to do is check gear backlash. The reason for this is that gear setup will be identical with the new carrier if the backlash is set the same.
Setting up gears is tricky. Setting up *used* gears is VERY tricky to do properly. This is because the drive side of the gears will be worn in and won't show a pattern easily. The solution to this is to check gear pattern on the coast side. Without anything else to go on, I'd set backlash to about .012" and play guess and check.
The other thing you can do is to watch the gear pattern on the drive side and note when the contact pattern trades sides. The setting where the pattern *just* trades sides (heel to toe or toe to heel) will be very close to where it was set before.
Be gentle driving with it after a carrier swap since it is highly unlikely that the gear interchange will be close enough to the same to not need break-in time. I usually go 500 miles light duty and then a gear oil inspection change and attention to diff temps- especially on the first drive using a non-contact thermometer.
When you pull a carrier for a swap the first thing to do is check gear backlash. The reason for this is that gear setup will be identical with the new carrier if the backlash is set the same.Setting up gears is tricky. Setting up *used* gears is VERY tricky to do properly. This is because the drive side of the gears will be worn in and won't show a pattern easily. The solution to this is to check gear pattern on the coast side. Without anything else to go on, I'd set backlash to about .012" and play guess and check.
The other thing you can do is to watch the gear pattern on the drive side and note when the contact pattern trades sides. The setting where the pattern *just* trades sides (heel to toe or toe to heel) will be very close to where it was set before.
Be gentle driving with it after a carrier swap since it is highly unlikely that the gear interchange will be close enough to the same to not need break-in time. I usually go 500 miles light duty and then a gear oil inspection change and attention to diff temps- especially on the first drive using a non-contact thermometer.
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Joined: Jul 2006
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From: Mi'kma'ki
Pirate4x4.Com - Setting up the axle’s ring and pinion gears.
you should have just swapped whole axles.you would have been 2-3 hours with new u-bolts and done.no specialty tools or detailed knowledge required.
you should have just swapped whole axles.you would have been 2-3 hours with new u-bolts and done.no specialty tools or detailed knowledge required.
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Pirate4x4.Com - Setting up the axle’s ring and pinion gears.
you should have just swapped whole axles.you would have been 2-3 hours with new u-bolts and done.no specialty tools or detailed knowledge required.
you should have just swapped whole axles.you would have been 2-3 hours with new u-bolts and done.no specialty tools or detailed knowledge required.
http://www2.dana.com/pdf/5717.PDF
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Aug 2011
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At this point I would toss that axle, heres why:every bearing in the diff (not including wheel bearings) will be toast, you swaped pinions and I garentee that you didn't use a new crush sleeve, so the bearings would more then likely be too tight = toast or too loose = toast, next is if the carrier was that tight, those bearings are toast, thats a $200 bearing set just there, next is you have no idea if you grinded down the actual r&p so that could be another 2-$300...... new diff is cheaper and you don't have to get all the special tools to set it up.
Carriers can be swapped between diffs if the back lash it checked before and setup to the same after, R&P swaps cannot be done this way, every housing will be drilled slightly different then the next so your pinion shim needs to be changed, after pinion depth has been set right then you can setup the carrier to the old back lash but ONLY after the pinion is setup right or itll all be out and youll chew everything up.
just my 2 cents
Carriers can be swapped between diffs if the back lash it checked before and setup to the same after, R&P swaps cannot be done this way, every housing will be drilled slightly different then the next so your pinion shim needs to be changed, after pinion depth has been set right then you can setup the carrier to the old back lash but ONLY after the pinion is setup right or itll all be out and youll chew everything up.
just my 2 cents
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I havent done all my reading up yet, as i havent got the time to do it just yet, but you guys seem to know what youre doing so im going to fire away. I bought a set of axles out of a 02 SD to drop in the 92, im good and past that bit, but the guy had the rear re-geared to 4.10 and the front is still 3.73. My D50 ttb is 4.10, also i guess i should specify the SD front is a d50 not a 60. So my research told me i can swap the R&P if not the whole carrier to get matched gears.From what i understood, the setup on the dana was going to be pretty easy compared to the sterling, so i bought the kit with new ring bolts, crush sleeve, etc. If im understanding this correctly, i simply need a case spreader and this is an afternoon 12 pack kind of project. Just wondering if its going to be that easy and straight forward, or not so much.