I bought some Patriot specific fit headers from jegs. I'm not experienced at all in installing headers, but with my version of a test fit, the collector will not move past the starter. If I take the starter off and move the headers in, will I be able to re install the starter? Or should I just get a mini starter? The vehicle is a 1965 F250 Camper Special.

 

I have Hooker long tubes on my 66 FE, the header has to be loosened to allow the starter to be moved.

A starter blanket can be used or the mini as an alternative.


John

 

i have the same headers. the header needs to be in place but not bolted up, then install starter, then install header.

no starter blanket needed......wait, you did get the ceramic ones right?

 

Yes I got the ceramic ones.

 

Hi guys,
I'm new to the site, finally joining after reading some great advice on this site. Hopefully OK posting on this same thread...

I'm in a similar situation, except that I've already got Hooker Headers on a 1965 F250 with 352FE; and my starter needs to be replaced. It looks tight getting the starter out. Sounds like the headers need to be loosened to get the old starter out. I fear I'll be breaking bolts, but if it's futile pulling the starter with Hooker headers installed, then so be it. Should I consider a mini-starter as the replacement? Cost does come into play for me, and a full restore is quite a ways away.

FYI, it starts right up cold. It's once I've been driving for 20minutes + and it gets warm that I have starting issues. Guessing I'm getting enough heat from the headers and the armature is sticking (a broom stick tap frees it up)? Sorry if I'm hijacking the thread/ should start a new one.

 

scurrytom Welcome to and the Slicks Forum.

I believe you might have fuel-carb issues rather than starter. I have had the same issue with my truck. Swapping to an alum intake can cause issues with boiling the gas out of the carb once it is hot.


I would consider adding a starter blanket now to prolong it's life.


John

 

Thanks jowilker!!! I never would have thought of that. I bought the truck and it looks like the Hooker headers have been in for quite some time (showing some age), but the 4 barrel carb is fairly new. I drive it fairly infrequently, and this issue only arises when the engine gets quite warm, so this seems to make sense. So if I understand correctly: It is heat causing the issue with the starter; but it isn't that the starter is necessarily bad, so the blanket should prolong the life of the starter. In terms of boiling the gas out of the carb, anything I can/ should do? That seems to fit with what I see: I have minimal/ no issues starting it cold with choke. Once it is warm (run errands, start it with engine hot), it is actually more finicky to start. Forgive my ignorance, I grew up learning to drive a manual, but it was fuel injected. This is my first go with carburetor/ manual choke vehicle.

 

I'll search some of the older forums, as I think you've already posted on this subject:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...ue-how-to.html

Thanks again, this is setting me off in the right direction. I'm already a big fan of this site!

 

Scurry - you didn't describe exactly why you first thought you needed to change your starter. What's it doing or not doing? You also said a PO had changed the engine's induction to a 4 bbl, but you didn't state whether the current intake manifold is factory cast iron or aluminum aftermarket. So you might have a tired starter, or vapor lock, or both. Does the starter sound fine when the engine's cold, but labor (gradually slowing down) after it's hot and then heat soaked? And your battery cranking power output has checked OK? If so, I'd say you will probably need a new starter - although as jowilker has pointed out, putting a heat shield blanket around it may help some. If the engine turns over fine but just won't start, then I'd be more inclined to think your fuel is boiling away in the carb. The thing is, each situation is individual. I have headers on both my 5.0 engined Falcon and Mustang, and a heat shield blanket on each. I replaced the starter once on the Falcon and had no further issues. I replaced the starter four times, including one high torque mini starter, on the Mustang before I finally got one that could live with the heat. On my 390 F100 I have the same headers as jowilker has, and you have (Hooker Super Comps), a heat blanket, and the starter that came on my truck when I bought it 5 years ago. On relatively cool winter days here in Tucson, when the temp is in the 60s and 70s, I have no problems with the starter. On the hot summer 100 + days, it gets a little worrisome. Likewise, I put a one inch phenolic spacer between my Edelbrock aluminum intake manifold and the Edelbrock 4 bbl carb, the idea being to eliminate vapor lock and boiling, and I still get a little of it in very hot weather. Lastly, if you do change your starter, you WILL have to loosen the header to do it. There's no getting around it. Also, if you do put a spacer between your carb and manifold, you may have to also build a spacer to raise the height of your throttle cable linkage. I did, anyway. Wasn't hard to do, just an additional step. Good luck!

 

Hi SuperSabre,

The PO had installed what I believe to be a Holley 4 barrell carb, zinc (I think). This all began when I thought my battery was bad/ not charging for some time. I fully charged the battery and had it and the alternator tested. Both checked out OK. had also thought that maybe the voltage regulator could be it, so replaced that (cheap and easily accessible). I began carrying a volt meter with me to check various cases. I finally came to the conclusion it was the starter: had started it up in the morning no problem. Drove a few short errands, engine got warm. Went to start it again, and NOTHING from the starter. Check the battery and it was still measuring 12.6 volts. had someone tap the starter while I turned the key and it started up. I figured it must be a brush or something else in the starter.

The other day drove it to work and had the same issue/ solution with the starter. It had sat for 8-9 hours, so likely not heat soak?

So it sounds like at a minimum I should replace the starter and put on a starter blanket? Not looking forward to loosening the header, guess I'll try and reuse existing gasket since they aren't coming off completely?

Perhaps I try that and then see if the boiling gas out of the carb is an issue?

Thanks all....

 

It's Been my experience that once the starter starts acting like that it's just keeps getting worst until all the banging in the world won't get it to spin...you could try a blanket as recommended.. But you will need to change the starter sooner than later...might as well bite the bullet...if cost is an issue..have it rebuilt...

Good luck

 

Thanks! I think I can swing the cost of a standard size, but really like the idea of the mini starters. May have to stick with the standard form factor though.

Looking like I have a new project I need to complete sooner than later.
thanks

 

Heat soak is one of those things that can last for a short time or for more than a few hours. It depends on many factors - outside temps, moisture in the air, design of the manifold, how tight your rings are......
When your carb boils over, raw gas will not only set on flat areas just under the carb, if this is a large amount, it could spill down into the cylinders and set there for more than a few hours, as I stated above. If your rings are not so tight and fuel gets into your oil, well, let's just say, not so good for the motor.
If you suspect the motor is flooded, put it to the floor, 'and do not let up on it ', while you are cranking it over. Any raw fuel will be blown out the pipe, and it will usually start right up.

 

I think I'm hearing the need for a new or, as was suggested, a rebuilt starter. Be VERY careful removing - or trying to - the exhaust manifold bolts. When they break off in the cylinder head it is a major PITA to get them out and retap things. I had to have professional help with mine. Use lots of penetrating oil, multiple times, and a lot of patience. Heat may also help. If you can get the engine started and up to operating temperature, then jump on them, I've heard that recommended, too. Of course, it improves the chance of burning the heck out of yourself, too. I'd also be very careful about reusing your gasket. It's not that hard to replace once the bolts are all out, and you certainly don't want an exhaust leak after you've buttoned it up. Lastly, I would recommend a heat insulation blanket for the starter when you reinstall it. It can't hurt and it should help. Good luck!

 

Here's another recommendation..if you intend to pull the header.. Start using a penetrating oil a few days before you start...And If the funds allow... Replace the exhaust manifold bolts with new ones.... You not only have to worry while backing them out.. I have seen them snap while tightening them down...

Good luck