Good engine builders, performance shop in OKC?
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Senior User
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: OKC, Okla.
Good engine builders, performance shop in OKC?
Hey guys. I'm fixing to pick up a 78 Bronco. It has a 351M in it now. I'm wanting to have the engine rebuilt or do a 460 swap and I need the whole suspension/drivetrain redone and refreshed. Not looking for a hot rod but I'm looking to get the Bronco built to be strong, reliable and solid.
Who is a good shop in OKC that could handle this with a good reputation?
A few leads would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Who is a good shop in OKC that could handle this with a good reputation?
A few leads would be appreciated.
Thanks!
FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
I don't know anything about shops in OKC, but I have learned a bit about the M. Depending on your definition of "strong" that's tough to do as an M. The problem is that pistons that give good compression are almost impossible to find for that engine. Yes, you can find stock replacement pistons, which means ~8:1 compression. I have one of those in Rusty, as shown in my sig, and it runs well.
But, if you want strong you need to use a 400 crank, and the crank and different pistons is all that separate the M from the 400. There are good pistons available for the 400 from Tim Meyer as he has Keith Black make them to his spec's, and you can get 9.5:1 CR and very strong performance. But, if you are having the engine built why not have Tim do it? He really knows 400's and is probably the guru for those engines in the world. He's built lots of engines for guys on here, and he supplied the consultation and parts for my engine. With the custom cam he had Comp grind it'll be above 500 on both torque and HP using aluminum heads. However, he gets well over 400 with stock heads. That's strong.
But, if you want strong you need to use a 400 crank, and the crank and different pistons is all that separate the M from the 400. There are good pistons available for the 400 from Tim Meyer as he has Keith Black make them to his spec's, and you can get 9.5:1 CR and very strong performance. But, if you are having the engine built why not have Tim do it? He really knows 400's and is probably the guru for those engines in the world. He's built lots of engines for guys on here, and he supplied the consultation and parts for my engine. With the custom cam he had Comp grind it'll be above 500 on both torque and HP using aluminum heads. However, he gets well over 400 with stock heads. That's strong.
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 154
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From: OKC, Okla.
I don't know anything about shops in OKC, but I have learned a bit about the M. Depending on your definition of "strong" that's tough to do as an M. The problem is that pistons that give good compression are almost impossible to find for that engine. Yes, you can find stock replacement pistons, which means ~8:1 compression. I have one of those in Rusty, as shown in my sig, and it runs well.
But, if you want strong you need to use a 400 crank, and the crank and different pistons is all that separate the M from the 400. There are good pistons available for the 400 from Tim Meyer as he has Keith Black make them to his spec's, and you can get 9.5:1 CR and very strong performance. But, if you are having the engine built why not have Tim do it? He really knows 400's and is probably the guru for those engines in the world. He's built lots of engines for guys on here, and he supplied the consultation and parts for my engine. With the custom cam he had Comp grind it'll be above 500 on both torque and HP using aluminum heads. However, he gets well over 400 with stock heads. That's strong.
But, if you want strong you need to use a 400 crank, and the crank and different pistons is all that separate the M from the 400. There are good pistons available for the 400 from Tim Meyer as he has Keith Black make them to his spec's, and you can get 9.5:1 CR and very strong performance. But, if you are having the engine built why not have Tim do it? He really knows 400's and is probably the guru for those engines in the world. He's built lots of engines for guys on here, and he supplied the consultation and parts for my engine. With the custom cam he had Comp grind it'll be above 500 on both torque and HP using aluminum heads. However, he gets well over 400 with stock heads. That's strong.
Tim Meyer keeps coming up. I may check into things with his shop. However, I'm going to need someone to install it and get it running. I need a full service shop here locally to handle that for me.
I'm still trying to decide whether or not I should keep my 351 and build it with 400 parts or find a 400..or just do the 460.
I want to be able to actually use my Bronco. I want to tow with it on occasion and I want it reliable for regular use and driving.
Id like to have at least 400 ft/lbs of torque and HP fall where it may. From what you said, that sounds very doable,
I'm still new to these older Broncos and I hear about using 400 internals in the 351.
FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
There aren't but two differences between an M and a 400: the crank and the pistons. Period. And since you can't get high compression pistons for the M I recommend the 400. I found a 400 on CL for $40 and that gave me the crank. Tim supplied everything else and I'm having the machine work done in Tulsa and I'll assemble it. But Tim could have done that quite well. And, you won't get the same engine anywhere else. He has oiling system mods that correct a problem those engines have, and while the info on the mods are available, my machine shop doesn't understand those engines and didn't want to do the mods. And they are important!
Laughing Gas
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,198
Likes: 9
From: Fairmont
Thanks Gary,
Unfortunately the machining field is dieing.
I talk to people everyday that the closest machine shop is 1-2 hours away.
Fortunately shipping industry has gotten more competitive, so it makes it very economical for customer to ship to us.
Your example, Business to Business, we could pick up a pallet weighing #600 (about a complete engine) from OKC, Oklahoma for about $170.
Let me know what we can do to help you, Like Gary said, we do 400's all the time. We probably dyno a 400 at least once a month.
Thanks for your time guys!!
Unfortunately the machining field is dieing.
I talk to people everyday that the closest machine shop is 1-2 hours away.
Fortunately shipping industry has gotten more competitive, so it makes it very economical for customer to ship to us.
Your example, Business to Business, we could pick up a pallet weighing #600 (about a complete engine) from OKC, Oklahoma for about $170.
Let me know what we can do to help you, Like Gary said, we do 400's all the time. We probably dyno a 400 at least once a month.
Thanks for your time guys!!
Laughing Gas
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,198
Likes: 9
From: Fairmont
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Senior User
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From: OKC, Okla.
There aren't but two differences between an M and a 400: the crank and the pistons. Period. And since you can't get high compression pistons for the M I recommend the 400. I found a 400 on CL for $40 and that gave me the crank. Tim supplied everything else and I'm having the machine work done in Tulsa and I'll assemble it. But Tim could have done that quite well. And, you won't get the same engine anywhere else. He has oiling system mods that correct a problem those engines have, and while the info on the mods are available, my machine shop doesn't understand those engines and didn't want to do the mods. And they are important!
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Senior User
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: OKC, Okla.
Aprox $375.
This may help you guys.
Here's a link to about 4 different engine builds.
This pretty much outlines about everything.
Course, everything is customizable.
Engine build links:
Downloads
This may help you guys.
Here's a link to about 4 different engine builds.
This pretty much outlines about everything.
Course, everything is customizable.
Engine build links:
Downloads
A few questions.
If you guys pick it up for $170, I assume its $170 to ship it back?
You are in Fairmont, MN correct?
Where can I find info on how to crate it?
I'm just looking to have a reliable, drivable engine and my main needs are high torque for strong pulling power. I wont be towing over 5000lbs but I want as effortless towing as I can get.
NOT looking for a high HP hot rod.
Should I just keep my 351 and have it built with 400 internals? I guess thats what I'm gathering here.
I'm getting so many pros and cons to swapping out for a 460 its starting to get confusing. A lot of people are suggesting 88 and above 460 with the EFI.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,198
Likes: 9
From: Fairmont
Return shipping does cost a little more.
Sending it back, it will go on a engine cradle and more care in shipping it back.
It could be another $100 to send it back.
As far sending it to us, it is as simple as sitting it on a pallet and strap it down.
Now one thing I want to make sure is clear, we are not so much 400 bias, just Ford bias.
So it will depending on what you ultimately want.
I have a dyno graph that shows a 400 and a 460 super imposed.
Now this is not perfect, but we found a build of both that was very close.
The 460 made 15 more HP and 10 more torque. That's not a lot for the work required to do the swap. Plus you have the extra weight.
I think I can safely safe we have not had a 400 customer who was not very surprised and happy with the power.
Sending it back, it will go on a engine cradle and more care in shipping it back.
It could be another $100 to send it back.
As far sending it to us, it is as simple as sitting it on a pallet and strap it down.
Now one thing I want to make sure is clear, we are not so much 400 bias, just Ford bias.
So it will depending on what you ultimately want.
I have a dyno graph that shows a 400 and a 460 super imposed.
Now this is not perfect, but we found a build of both that was very close.
The 460 made 15 more HP and 10 more torque. That's not a lot for the work required to do the swap. Plus you have the extra weight.
I think I can safely safe we have not had a 400 customer who was not very surprised and happy with the power.
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
From: OKC, Okla.
Return shipping does cost a little more.
Sending it back, it will go on a engine cradle and more care in shipping it back.
It could be another $100 to send it back.
As far sending it to us, it is as simple as sitting it on a pallet and strap it down.
Now one thing I want to make sure is clear, we are not so much 400 bias, just Ford bias.
So it will depending on what you ultimately want.
I have a dyno graph that shows a 400 and a 460 super imposed.
Now this is not perfect, but we found a build of both that was very close.
The 460 made 15 more HP and 10 more torque. That's not a lot for the work required to do the swap. Plus you have the extra weight.
I think I can safely safe we have not had a 400 customer who was not very surprised and happy with the power.
Sending it back, it will go on a engine cradle and more care in shipping it back.
It could be another $100 to send it back.
As far sending it to us, it is as simple as sitting it on a pallet and strap it down.
Now one thing I want to make sure is clear, we are not so much 400 bias, just Ford bias.
So it will depending on what you ultimately want.
I have a dyno graph that shows a 400 and a 460 super imposed.
Now this is not perfect, but we found a build of both that was very close.
The 460 made 15 more HP and 10 more torque. That's not a lot for the work required to do the swap. Plus you have the extra weight.
I think I can safely safe we have not had a 400 customer who was not very surprised and happy with the power.
Also, just want to be clear, I'm still using my current 351, correct? Is there anything else I need to acquire prior to sending in my engine?
Laughing Gas
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,198
Likes: 9
From: Fairmont
For the most part, just sending your engine is all we need.
In fact depending on if this is a daily driver and if you want your engine
built or not, we can build an engine from our current inventory and
when we ship the engine, you can send yours in for a core. Then that way you can use your vehicle in the mean time.
We can help you which ever way you want.
I'd be glad to call you and talk more about your engine if you like.
In fact depending on if this is a daily driver and if you want your engine
built or not, we can build an engine from our current inventory and
when we ship the engine, you can send yours in for a core. Then that way you can use your vehicle in the mean time.
We can help you which ever way you want.
I'd be glad to call you and talk more about your engine if you like.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,072
Likes: 3
From: tulsa
If you did want to stay local talk to Boyd's machine in Norman. They do nice work, they do all the machine for for our top fuel car. They can put it together for you also. I don't know costs but it might be worth checking out
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
From: OKC, Okla.
For the most part, just sending your engine is all we need.
In fact depending on if this is a daily driver and if you want your engine
built or not, we can build an engine from our current inventory and
when we ship the engine, you can send yours in for a core. Then that way you can use your vehicle in the mean time.
We can help you which ever way you want.
I'd be glad to call you and talk more about your engine if you like.
In fact depending on if this is a daily driver and if you want your engine
built or not, we can build an engine from our current inventory and
when we ship the engine, you can send yours in for a core. Then that way you can use your vehicle in the mean time.
We can help you which ever way you want.
I'd be glad to call you and talk more about your engine if you like.
Thread Starter
|
Senior User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
From: OKC, Okla.
Do they only do race engines? I wonder if they would do wha I need done?
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