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If your truck can't handle a trip to the track it sure doesn't sound very "dependable"
Stinky does great in the Daily Driver tune (about 45-50 more RWHP than a new 6.7L) It's the race tune that bends stuff and shreds tires - so I don't use it. A local diesel customizer rode in Stinky and estimated he was at about 425-450 RWHP... but I yield to the math - I should top out at 400-425 RWHP. The torque? I have no freaking clue.
Who is really going to expect reliability while you drive your truck does this?
Well... it's starting to look like this has been thoroughly explored. In summary:
It sounds like the 6.7L is the favorite - more-so on the 6.7L forum than here. I expected that. The members on the 6.7L forum already "broke the paper" - meaning they are already past the point of coming to terms with that much investment, and acquiring the vehicle. Even current owners of the 6.7L have trepidations about a break-down - because of it's lack of serviceability... but they generally feel the platform is stable and it's certainly more powerful, comfortable, and quiet.
My personal concerns are the fact that it needs a body lift to work on it (I could never tighten an injector bolt on the road, and continue on with my vacation), and the complexity of the array of electronics. I think electronics will prairie-dog within 7 years, and grow worse every year after that - but your crystal ball is as good as mine.
The 7.3L is afforded more respect here (duh... saw that coming), in terms of durability and cost of ownership.
I appreciate all the interesting input, as well as everybody's civility with what could be considered a touchy subject.
It was an interesting discussion Rich, no doubt. It's interesting that even if you look up and down the 6.7L forum this morning despite the "truck shut down on me" type threads etc. they all stick by the 6.7L, maybe partially to also defend the spend. Frankly, "the truck shut down on me" scenario as I explained early in the discussion is my nightmare situation while towing animals, but to each their own.
I'd also be curious how people in real winter environments feel based on what we've dealt with in northern VT. That DEF heater failure point is a real PITA......and given the fact there was a national shortage on the part over the winter speaks volumes to me. I would hazard a guess that the guys in warm climates have by default avoided a segment of the 6.7L reliability questions just by avoiding the heating challenges.
Like you Rich, I would like to see how all those sensors age over the 6-10 year point especially in cold climates. I hope for my friend's sake they age well.
Great thread guys! While I have not driven a 6.7, I do own a 6.4. And the 6.4 is a real nice truck!
As time goes by, and the aftermarket world gets a hold of these trucks, custom tuning along with better made add-on goodies make these trucks much more enjoyable to drive. I bet in a few years, the 6.4's and the 6.7's will enjoy the same benefits the 7.3's and 6.0's do today.
Look around on some other 6.7 forums at the number of failed EGT sensors that Ford has not been covering under the powertrain warranty (even while Ford does cover the exhaust back pressure sensor). Owners without a wrench or a will to wrangle with it have forked over $300 plus dollars to Ford, per sensor. Those who like Tugly have a tenacity for tightening things themselves have managed to wittle that cost down to about $40 for the part, a 13 mm wrench, and a dirty shirt.
Think about when you got your 7.3L, versus when many of the 6.7 guys got their 6.7. Many of those 6.7 guys had the 7.3, the 6.0, and the 6.4. One guy reported skipping the 6.4, which only had a 2 year run anyway. The point is, these guys will be out of their new truck, and into their next new truck, before the original warranty is up.
You, on the other hand, bought your truck 10 years after it was built, and at least 5 year s after the last remaining warranty had long expired. That is an entirely different mindset. An entirely different budget (either by choice or by necessity). Others, like Pop for example, buy and hold. They don't trade into the next new thing for all those incremental improvements (and beta testing).
So, the differences in responses may come from the differences in people, rather than just the merits of the motors, or the "defend the spend" (I like that phrase River19, it is now permanently inculcated into my vernacular!).
I won't buy a new truck every five years, much less every 2 or 3 years like some of those 6.7 guys, who already have their 2015's on order or in their driveways, after trading in their 2011's and 2012's. Must be nice to have it like that to spend, and not to have to worry about longevity. For them, the long term reliability of the 7.3L means nothing. For those of us who buy and hold, who buy used long out of warranty, and who work on our own vehicles ourselves, that long term reliability and ease of serviceability means everything.
Look around on some other 6.7 forums at the number of failed EGT sensors that Ford has not been covering under the powertrain warranty (even while Ford does cover the exhaust back pressure sensor). Owners without a wrench or a will to wrangle with it have forked over $300 plus dollars to Ford, per sensor. Those who like Tugly have a tenacity for tightening things themselves have managed to wittle that cost down to about $40 for the part, a 13 mm wrench, and a dirty shirt.
Think about when you got your 7.3L, versus when many of the 6.7 guys got their 6.7. Many of those 6.7 guys had the 7.3, the 6.0, and the 6.4. One guy reported skipping the 6.4, which only had a 2 year run anyway. The point is, these guys will be out of their new truck, and into their next new truck, before the original warranty is up.
You, on the other hand, bought your truck 10 years after it was built, and at least 5 year s after the last remaining warranty had long expired. That is an entirely different mindset. An entirely different budget (either by choice or by necessity). Others, like Pop for example, buy and hold. They don't trade into the next new thing for all those incremental improvements (and beta testing).
So, the differences in responses may come from the differences in people, rather than just the merits of the motors, or the "defend the spend" (I like that phrase River19, it is now permanently inculcated into my vernacular!).
I won't buy a new truck every five years, much less every 2 or 3 years like some of those 6.7 guys, who already have their 2015's on order or in their driveways, after trading in their 2011's and 2012's. Must be nice to have it like that to spend, and not to have to worry about longevity. For them, the long term reliability of the 7.3L means nothing. For those of us who buy and hold, who buy used long out of warranty, and who work on our own vehicles ourselves, that long term reliability and ease of serviceability means everything.
I bought my 7.3 when it was still the current diesel motor offered by Ford. I had trepidations about buying one at that time because of all the horror stories about them on this very forum, of course now I am very happy I bought one. But these forums attract posters who are having problems, and make it seem problems are much bigger and more frequent than they are in reality.
But given the conditions of scenario, for the same money, I would take the 6.7, hands down no contest.
In the real world if I were to trade my 7.3 off for another diesel, I wouldn't even consider a 7.3 because they are so overpriced for what you get. 6.0's are the real sleeper value in a diesel for people who are willing to put a little money and time in them and that's what I would definitely shop for if I were in the market. But again, that's not Tugly's scenario.
It's interesting that even if you look up and down the 6.7L forum this morning despite the "truck shut down on me" type threads etc. they all stick by the 6.7L, maybe partially to also defend the spend.
Just like all of you defending owning an old out of date truck...
Think about when you got your 7.3L, versus when many of the 6.7 guys got their 6.7. Many of those 6.7 guys had the 7.3, the 6.0, and the 6.4. One guy reported skipping the 6.4, which only had a 2 year run anyway. The point is, these guys will be out of their new truck, and into their next new truck, before the original warranty is up.
Clux, you've brought up the historical perspective before, and it is a very good point, so I'm sure Tugly won't mind you bringing it up again.
I too remember the complaints about the 1999 up 7.3L back when it was new. Let's take a look at them...
1. Cackle (one word that described two different noises, but the noise that concerned most was the one at hot idle that sounded like a rod knock). Mucho volumes of woe written online about this issue... enough to probably bring the fastest Cray super computer around at the time to a crawl.
Turned out to be a non-issue in reality. Especially for those who don't modify their engines. For those who do, there's an app for that. It's called a regulated return. But here is the main point: Leaving it alone costs nothing, and caused no major engine, cylinder, or injector damage. Modifying the fuel system to a full regulated return costs $899.00 (the most expensive kit I could find... most cost $595). Or Clay's FRX costs $195.00.
Fool with the fuel system in a 6.7? Owners report the bill to be between a minimum of $8,000, up to $16,000.00.
2. The second complaint I recall reading (and writing) about is the air box. The most expensive fix for this is around $495, but many people get it done for less than $40 with a 6637.
I don't recall reading about any air intake problems with the 6.7... but on the other end of the engine... whoa nelly... the damage from dropped and or/ cracked exhaust valves has been reported by owners to cost between $10,000 to $24,000.
3. CMP. Camshaft position sensor. They are now $15. To be fair, I do remember when they retailed at Ford dealers for three to five times that amount... right up until the day Ford recalled them. Which meant that most people could get them installed for free. Then, magically, the price plummeted. Interesting how that works.
Contrast this to the EGT sensors of the 6.7. From $37 at a discount online part store, to $350 if dealer installed, customer pay. The price for these sensors may come down in the future, perhaps by mandate. Time will tell.
The big complaints and problems with the stock 7.3L engine were are resolved with cheap fixes from a cost to repair perspective. The problems that are self inflicted due to modifications are another matter. The wonder of the 7.3L is that it still runs, despite what people do to it.
The 6.7 may get there, but it isn't there yet. Ford wouldn't be changing fundamental aspects of this powerplant (fuel system, turbo, etc etc) if it were there now. Might be a good idea to wait and see how the newer version of the 6.7 holds up for the early adopters.
Stinky does great in the Daily Driver tune (about 45-50 more RWHP than a new 6.7L) It's the race tune that bends stuff and shreds tires - so I don't use it. A local diesel customizer rode in Stinky and estimated he was at about 425-450 RWHP... but I yield to the math - I should top out at 400-425 RWHP. The torque? I have no freaking clue.
Who is really going to expect reliability while you drive your truck does this?
You are only guessing on power numbers. Until you put that pig on the track you can't make any claims that aren't coming out your keister.
Still, if your truck can't handle a trip to the track it has no business towing a fifth wheel across the country.
PS, that picture isn't terrible impressive. When you can do that in 4 wheel drive we can talk.
Just like all of you defending owning an old out of date truck...
Sent from my Telegraph using IB AutoGroup
Depends on your needs and perspective......But to be fair I wouldn't call a truck 9 model years old terribly up to date either........lol.....
The way I look at it, mine suits my needs, it's paid for, cheap to fix, easy to work on for what I would do. Similar to the 6.0L. If I thought dropping $50K+ on a 6.7L would suit my needs better, I would probably do it. I just just don't see $50K more value there than what I have for what I need it for.....and I'm not someone who has a tax advantage to write off the $800/mo payments.
The 6.0 is a very capable engine with a few bucks thrown in to true things up.........to each there own. It isn't like any of the PSDs etc. suck at the end of the day none are perfect.
In any discussion I wouldn't expect people to readily admit they made a horrible decision.....and inevitably someone will think they would have done things differently.
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