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I recently did some work on my 1995 I6 F150. Through some unfortunate circumstances (breaking bolts on the EGR) I had to remove the intake manifold and send it to a machine shop. After replacing the manifold, I ran into a pip sensor failure that prevented the truck from starting. I was able to replace the pip sensor on the distributor which got the truck starting again, but then got a myriad of engine-running check engine codes, one of which is 213 (SPOUT circuit open). I followed the Haynes manual instructions for figuring out what the issue is, but I want to make sure I'm making the right decision. I got a little below the 3.0 to 8.5 VAC value at the ICM SPOUT wire (and gave myself a good shock while getting that value). Then when I checked at the SPOUT connector it was within specification. Is that definitely the ICM, or is there something else I should be checking? Just looking for people with experience to verify I got the right result.
Looks like a great site! I've gotten quite a bit out of it already by researching the issues my truck has had so far.
Last edited by Artaxerxes; May 29, 2014 at 07:18 PM.
Reason: thumbs up icon didn't work
To be more clear about my question, I'm wondering if anyone would expect the voltage to be lower at the ICM SPOUT wire than at the SPOUT connector or if that would truly indicate a bad ICM. I've heard that the black ICMs tend to be more robust and don't tend to die, so I'm hesitant to buy a new one without some confirmation. I haven't had a lot of time to work on my truck lately, but I'd like to check the wiring to make sure I don't have a short somewhere. Any other suggestions/thoughts are welcome.
NAPA and Oreilly's both show black as a replacement for my 92 grey one.
so I used it.
sure seems to lack some torque so now that I know that isn't the problem, I'll go back to the grey one and see if it runs better.
Straight 6 and no problem pulling out into traffic with a load of firewood.with grey ig unit.
black one seems more sluggish but will report back.
The SPOUT is just a shorting bar. A paperclip would work. As long as the wire has continuity and makes good connection at both ends, it will work. If you're getting a SPOUT code, there's a break in either the shorting bar or either of the two wires going to it.
I have not replaced my black ICM with anything yet, but my Haynes manual says that it is bad based on the tests I did. It says that if the voltage is out of spec at the wire from the SPOUT going into the ICM (and it was barely out of spec at just under 3 VAC), then it says to check it at the SPOUT connector itself. If it's in spec at the SPOUT connector (and it was in spec at about 5 VAC), it says to replace the ICM because it is shorting out the signal. I'm a little wary of just throwing parts at my truck, though, so I wanted to see what the community had to say about it.
I'm leaning towards Jason's suggestion that the wires going to/from the SPOUT connector have a problem. The battery light is also on in my truck, so I'm wondering if the system is detecting a short. Before all this, as I mentioned, I had pulled the intake manifold out, so I might have stressed a wire harness by accident.
NAPA and Oreilly's both show black as a replacement for my 92 grey one..
And they're both wrong, there are internal circuitry differences between the black and grey modules so they cannot be interchanged ***** nilly. Don't waste any more time troubleshooting a problem that should not be occurring, return the black TFI module (ICM) and get the correct grey one.
Turns out the SPOUT issue was just that my truck's timing was so far advanced that the system was throwing that SPOUT code. After doing the timing (finally) I checked the running codes again and no more SPOUT code! Something worth checking if you have the SPOUT issue.
1988 F150 TFI-IV ignition fuel injected 5.0L with a/c 8ft. bed
Had a rough running engine when warmed up and poor acceleration until engine would stop. Cooled engine and it started like normal. Ckd.coolant temp sensor for operation and book said change the PCM. New PCM ran OK for a time. Same thing only worse. Took it to mech. for diagnosis and he reported a new distributor was needed. Changed distributor with reman. from China. Weeks layer same thing. Followed a mech on line who warned of rebuilds. Pay attention to this! With everything back together I clipped my old Dwell meter to the PIP output signal wire from the ign module (black wire/orange stripe) which shows same info as (points dwell) and was looking for a 28°-32° dwell reading , and what popped up was (wait for it) 59° dwell angle. That means that there was no signal for 59° of crank rotation which will not give you much of a power stroke , hence no acceleration.
Guess who's getting the truck back for a new distributor replacement!
How many knew of this problem relationship?
Given the stator wheel has large gaps between the "teeth" I would expect that value from a dwell meter.
Your issue is a very common symptom of a failing PIP sensor when it heats up. The test I would like to see is doing the same thing when the truck is down on power again.
Given the stator wheel has large gaps between the "teeth" I would expect that value from a dwell meter.
Your issue is a very common symptom of a failing PIP sensor when it heats up. The test I would like to see is doing the same thing when the truck is down on power again.
If you've ever ran a v8 engine with a 59° dwell angle signal to the PCM , you need to work for a combustion engineering firm.
That would make an engine run in a retarded spark mode and it would be anybody's guess what the injectors were firing at. The PIP signal is the camshaft position sensor for the engine and outputs 8 pulses per 2 revolutions of crankshaft rotation.
Last edited by Joe Fee Sr.; Aug 17, 2020 at 03:14 AM.
Reason: Added information
The Dwell reading on a Dwell meter seems to depend on the loading of the PIP wire. One Dwell meter I hooked up gave about 30 degrees and another with the same input read 60 degrees and another about 45 degrees.
All of these reading were from a mock Ignition setup using a Sun Distributor Tester to turn the Distributor at my work bench.
Using four different Dwell Meters including the one that is part of the Sun Distributor Tester.
If you want a true reading use a hi impedance Ignition Scope. Attachment 281367
Using an old DIY Ignition Scope hooked to the Ignition Coil on a 1994 460. Attachment 281415
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