Hydroboost and Brakes

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May 23, 2014 | 08:24 PM

Joel Cassell

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Joined: Feb 2007

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Hydroboost and Brakes

Hi guys, I recently bought a 1977 ford f-250 camper special 4x4. It has a 400, dana 60 4.10 rear end, and a 4 speed. I am going to start re-doing the mechanicals, I want to start with brakes and then steering. I believe that the first upgrade I want to do is adding disc brakes in the back on the dana 60, and then do the Hydroboost. I guess my questions are:

1. Shroud I do the upgrades both at the same time, or should/can I do the disk brakes first and will that work with the stock setup?
2. I see the following from Jeffs Bronco Graveyard. Hydraulic Brake Setup With Lineset

Are there cheaper ways to go for the hydroboost upgrade? I see that some folks say use a unit from a F450, but can someone point me in the right direction to assemble the components myself?

Thanks,
Joel

Last edited by Joel Cassell; May 23, 2014 at 08:24 PM. Reason: Typo

May 23, 2014 | 09:05 PM

Blue and White

Postmaster

Joined: Nov 2011

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I run the stock system on a '78 F250. Fronts are two piston calipers and rears on the D60 are drums. I replaced the OE master as a preventative measure, OE front calipers with reman's, rubber lines and steel hard lines that were nasty... mostly at the front. The booster is original with new check valve. I am thinking of replacing the booster in the near future as a preventative measure. Brake pads/shoes are the "better" grade parts store semi mettalic.

The brakes work great. I have pulled non braked trailers up top around 4000 lb and braked trailers up to around 6500 lb with good confidence.

Point is the OE system is pretty good when up to snuff. Hydroboost and rear discs are nice. That said, maybe better to spend your time and money on other parts of the truck.

May 23, 2014 | 09:28 PM

grinnergetter

Cargo Master

Joined: May 2010

Posts: 3,365

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From: NW Indiana

I think either stainless brake lines or at least investing on some new lines would be a good place to start along with the rest of the brake system as Blue and White suggested.

Rear discs would be pretty far down on my list of things to upgrade.

May 23, 2014 | 11:54 PM

EP145

More Turbo

Joined: May 2007

Posts: 622

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From: Phoenix, AZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joel Cassell

Hi Joel,

Check out my thread I am putting a hydro boost on my 73 f100. To save a lot of $$ you can get one from the you pull it or on eBay or the local parts store even with the core charge it's less than $200. If it's a GM one use the S10 master cyclinder it has the same one inch bore as the disc brake Ford uses.

I had to shorten the rode 3/4 of an inch to get the right pedal travel

And nice last name mine is Cassels

May 24, 2014 | 06:43 AM

redroad

Lead Driver

Joined: Nov 2006

Posts: 5,217

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From: Pa.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillyWonka

I got lambasted for downplaying hydroboost in an earlier thread.....but most were only fanbois......show me proof hydroboost is "better" than 4-wheel disc vacuum boost and i'll eat the proverbial crow.

On a stock empty vehicle I would tend to agree but as soon as you start to increase HP of the motor the vacuum @ idle more than likely decreases so you have to compensate some how .. Why ? When your driving 65 with a heavy truck and load and you take your foot off the accelerator and go to brake your @ idle vacuum .. In the past a larger vacuum reservoir and power booster were solutions but now with what is a relatively straight forward conversion with hydroboost you can have the added security of real stopping power no matter what .. I've had to change my drawers after an incident of pushing the brakes at 65mph with a full load

and not having brakes because of limited vacuum .. The physics is there on this one

May 24, 2014 | 09:47 AM

Higbean

Senior User

Joined: Dec 2010

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Quote:

Originally Posted by WillyWonka

I see you're going to continue with your little man, butch dyke attitude. Put a little bend in your ball cap and put down the Rockstar.

The hydroboost conversion is a great upgrade for these trucks. So is rear discs. It helps that it is cheap to do both as well. When I did my swap, I was amazed how well it worked. Then I adjusted my prop valve so the rears would actually work! The before and after are so night and day, it's obvious you have an emotional attachment to vacuum. Separation issues?

May 24, 2014 | 09:53 AM

F-250 restorer

Lead Driver

Joined: Mar 2008

Posts: 7,182

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From: Near Los Angeles

Quote:

Originally Posted by EP145

I had to shorten the rode 3/4 of an inch to get the right pedal travel

And nice last name mine is Cassels

Can you please mention the year and the model of the hydro and master you are using, and whether you welded the rod back together? Did you have to swap on a Ford eye?

To the other member asking for proof that the hydro works better than an oem system: I have a 75 f250, and had the 78 booster upgrade. But my brakes did not make me feel safe, even with rebuilt front calipers and new drum components, along with new lines all the way around. I went with rear discs and still was not satisfied. After changing to a hydro boost system with a late model gm master for a 4x disc system, the brakes are awesome.

If you do a bit of research and read how much pressure the hydro system puts out, compared to a vacuum booster, the truth is there: the hydro puts out far more pressure. It is a fact.

NOTE: To anyone considering a hydro system: I have learned three things that I would do over. 1. Find a unit and master made to coexist, created to be used together so no guess work, measuring, making of push rod is involved in the mating of two units not designed to work together. DO NOT SLOT THE BOLT HOLES OF THE OEM MASTER TO MATE WITH THE HYDRO. So much psi has been know to launch slotted masters. 2. Change the p/s pump to a Saginaw unit with the dual return inlets,found on a1979 GMC 1ton,or a Cardone P/N 208606, which says it has 1 pressure and 2 return lines and is a will-fit for a 1978 Ford LTD with a 460, <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w

oNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w

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ontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority

9; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0in; mso-para-margin-right:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]-->so the steering does not hesitate in parking lots. The containers separate from, and are sold independently from the pumps. (The bracket for the Sag. pump is found on a mid eighties to early nineties Econoline van with the engine that you have. 3. Use a hydro that does not need to have a mounting plate fabricated.

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May 24, 2014 | 01:56 PM

rougeriver

Fleet Mechanic

Joined: Mar 2005

Posts: 1,343

Likes: 12

From: Wichita Falls TX

Welcome, Joel!

David

May 24, 2014 | 03:53 PM

#10

EP145

More Turbo

Joined: May 2007

Posts: 622

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From: Phoenix, AZ

F250 Restorer
Can you please mention the year and the model of the hydro and master you are using, and whether you welded the rod back together? Did you have to swap on a Ford eye?

I don't know what yr the hydro boost is I got it on eBay and was told it was for a Ford it was not it is GM. The master is a 2000 S10. I did cut in weld the Ford eye on but I could have used the GM one but the rod was 3/4 of an inch to long. There is a guy selling AN fittings to make hoses I haven't gottin that far yet.

Dan

May 24, 2014 | 04:10 PM

#11

EP145

More Turbo

Joined: May 2007

Posts: 622

Likes: 2

From: Phoenix, AZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillyWonka

Prove it! you can't! give me 4-wheel disc power brakes against 4-wheel disc hydroboost.....where's the big improvement?? there is none! it's just internet BS that every mindless puppet follows.

When you're braking you let off the accelerator, closing the throttle blades, at that point vacuum is at its maximum, creating pounds of braking power.

So why is hydroboost better? prove it! (without internet hype)

If you have a proformance cam or a RV cam with small lobe separation it will not have enough vacum by just "closing the throttle blades" I had a mustang with a 390 and a big cam with power disc brakes and it sucked my friend with manual disc out stopped me all day long.

Read below Why...

Inches of vacuum may be of concern if you have vacuum assisted accessories, such as power bakes or steering. A cam with a 112* lobe center will pull approximately 16-20" of vacuum, which is good for power brakes. A cam with 110* lobe center approximately 14-18", is borderline. However a cam with 108* will only pull 12-16", which is not enough for power assisted accessories. These numbers can vary a few inches one way or the other, depending on several other factors and your individual engine specifications, so you may want to check your vacuum once the cam is installed. If you don't have enough vacuum you can install a vacuum canister or reservoir, which works by storing the peak vacuum in the reservoir. If that's still not enough, then as a last resort you can use a vacuum pump.

May 24, 2014 | 04:35 PM

#12

Higbean

Senior User

Joined: Dec 2010

Posts: 335

Likes: 0

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillyWonka

Mr. Irrelevant strikes again...

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...l#post14374469

May 24, 2014 | 05:00 PM

#13

F-250 restorer

Lead Driver

Joined: Mar 2008

Posts: 7,182

Likes: 380

From: Near Los Angeles

FTE Member Vote:

All members who would like ***** Wonka to take his chocolate factory elsewhere please and depart from this thread, place your vote below.

1. F250 Restorer.

May 24, 2014 | 05:19 PM

#14

Higbean

Senior User

Joined: Dec 2010

Posts: 335

Likes: 0

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillyWonka

Apparently you don't like hearing facts, you prefer to hear your preconceived notion repeated again and again. Then why ask at all??

Apparently, you think your opinion is fact. And you don't like hearing that it's not.

May 24, 2014 | 05:36 PM

#15

redroad

Lead Driver

Joined: Nov 2006

Posts: 5,217

Likes: 506

From: Pa.

Let's say you are restoring a 1978 F250 and you think it would be prudent to replace the brake power booster and master cylinder while your at it because you've decided to go with some bigger tires of which the original braking system wasn't engineered for anyways .. The stock replacements are going to cost you $100 + shipping .. At that alone Hydroboost is my choice every time hands down