Unhappy NP205
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Unhappy NP205
Hello all,
Today while out tinkering with the '79 I decided to test out the 4x4. I went out into the grass and locked the hubs. With the trans in neutral(NP435) I put the T-case in 4high. It made some horrible clunking noise(almost grinding) in forward and reverse. It makes the same noise with the hubs locked in 2high as it does with the hubs unlocked in 4high. No foul noises in 2h with the hubs unlocked.
Is something broken or installed wrong? Or am I doing this the wrong way?
79 F150
400
NP205
NP435
Dana 44 front 9" rear
TruTrac front Detroit rear
Today while out tinkering with the '79 I decided to test out the 4x4. I went out into the grass and locked the hubs. With the trans in neutral(NP435) I put the T-case in 4high. It made some horrible clunking noise(almost grinding) in forward and reverse. It makes the same noise with the hubs locked in 2high as it does with the hubs unlocked in 4high. No foul noises in 2h with the hubs unlocked.
Is something broken or installed wrong? Or am I doing this the wrong way?
79 F150
400
NP205
NP435
Dana 44 front 9" rear
TruTrac front Detroit rear
Moderator & parts slinger
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: S/W Missouri, Polk county
Was the truck idling/running when you did this? And was the clutch pushed in, even though it was in neutral?
Troubleshooting question that all?
(It)? made some horrible clunking noise(almost grinding) in forward and reverse).... was this the truck transmission or transfer case itself when you put it in gear to move it?
Troubleshooting question that all?
(It)? made some horrible clunking noise(almost grinding) in forward and reverse).... was this the truck transmission or transfer case itself when you put it in gear to move it?
Thread Starter
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Elder User
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Was the truck idling/running when you did this? And was the clutch pushed in, even though it was in neutral?
Troubleshooting question that all?
(It)? made some horrible clunking noise(almost grinding) in forward and reverse).... was this the truck transmission or transfer case itself when you put it in gear to move it?
Troubleshooting question that all?
(It)? made some horrible clunking noise(almost grinding) in forward and reverse).... was this the truck transmission or transfer case itself when you put it in gear to move it?
I'm not quite sure what was making the sound. I did not seem like it was the transmission though. It sounded to me like something in the front axle.
Moderator & parts slinger
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: S/W Missouri, Polk county
Try this
1. Truck shut off
2. lock in hubs
3. shift transfer case in 4 hi
4. start truck
5. 1st gear, see what it does, if you hear a front end stripped grinding (stripped pinion) sound, that is bad. But you was just in there installing the locker right, and it all looked good?
If it won't go into 4 hi, start truck, put in 1st get it rolling it ever so slightly, push in clutch and pull into 4 hi with one rapid movement)
Some times having the clutch out, it running and in neutral makes it grind if you try to ease it into 4 hi or low. For 4 low you normally need to be stopped and have the clutch pushed in.
Same for out of 4 hi, if you miss 2wd and go to N, going back into 2wd it will grind right?
1. Truck shut off
2. lock in hubs
3. shift transfer case in 4 hi
4. start truck
5. 1st gear, see what it does, if you hear a front end stripped grinding (stripped pinion) sound, that is bad. But you was just in there installing the locker right, and it all looked good?
If it won't go into 4 hi, start truck, put in 1st get it rolling it ever so slightly, push in clutch and pull into 4 hi with one rapid movement)
Some times having the clutch out, it running and in neutral makes it grind if you try to ease it into 4 hi or low. For 4 low you normally need to be stopped and have the clutch pushed in.
Same for out of 4 hi, if you miss 2wd and go to N, going back into 2wd it will grind right?
Moderator & parts slinger
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From: S/W Missouri, Polk county
Does this make sense to you, I hope I explained it right.
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Thanks! I will try that later today and see how she likes it.
The front locker was put in by the pervious owner, but everything was inspected and seals replaced by a mechanic I no longer use. I was told that the ring and pinion had good wear patterns in the front at the time.
A ring and pinion isn't all that big of a deal if it is ground up. Its a fairly cheap part to replace compared to the locker.
wow that pinion gear is rough. That IS a pinion right!
Im not sure what you meant by the last bit about shifting from 2wd to N. The shifter moves like it should. The binding noise does not start until the truck moves.
The front locker was put in by the pervious owner, but everything was inspected and seals replaced by a mechanic I no longer use. I was told that the ring and pinion had good wear patterns in the front at the time.
A ring and pinion isn't all that big of a deal if it is ground up. Its a fairly cheap part to replace compared to the locker.
wow that pinion gear is rough. That IS a pinion right!
Im not sure what you meant by the last bit about shifting from 2wd to N. The shifter moves like it should. The binding noise does not start until the truck moves.
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Moderator & parts slinger
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From: S/W Missouri, Polk county
"That IS a pinion right" YES, worked good enough to get it on the trailer, the PO knew about it and even had the oil drained out, he never told me nothing.....
Meaning when shifting the transfer case from 4Hi to 2wd if you miss 2wd and go to N and then take it back to 2wd, does it grind?
Ck all your linkage like Fordfanboy said, and make sure your lock in/outs are working like they should.
When was the last time your hubs were repacked? Also ck the fluid level in your xfer case and transmission.
Meaning when shifting the transfer case from 4Hi to 2wd if you miss 2wd and go to N and then take it back to 2wd, does it grind?
Ck all your linkage like Fordfanboy said, and make sure your lock in/outs are working like they should.
When was the last time your hubs were repacked? Also ck the fluid level in your xfer case and transmission.
Hotshot
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: The Shenandoah Valley
Mine has a C-6 and while I can shift from 2hi to 4hi with trans neutral with engine running, I need to stop and place trans in PARK before going from 2hi through TC neutral to 4lo for similar reason.
The deal is when that TC hits neutral, there is nothing to stop it's input shaft from turning, and that means nothing to stop the transmission output from turning .... (except in my case when I place C-6 in Park the park pawl locks the trans output shaft) ..... and in your case, pushing the clutch in will minimize it. If your clutch drags a hair, you'll maybe need to shut your engine off .... in which case the clutch needs adjustment.
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From: S/W Missouri, Polk county
That is exactly what is possibly happening, awesome description tbear853. That one is going in my saved documents under "great descriptions of xfer case operation/description".
61steven follow his advise and see it that's it.
61steven follow his advise and see it that's it.
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Okay so I went out and filled the transfer case. After that I went out and tried shutting the truck off, locking the hubs, putting it in 4h and then testing it out in 1st. This worked and the binding noise was not there. I did hear some clunking from the transfer case while testing it various times though.
I could not drive the truck with the hubs locked and the transfer case in 2wd though. I thought people do that during the winter so they don't need to get out for 4x4? It feels like something in the front axle is binding when I do that.
I could not drive the truck with the hubs locked and the transfer case in 2wd though. I thought people do that during the winter so they don't need to get out for 4x4? It feels like something in the front axle is binding when I do that.
Moderator & parts slinger
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From: S/W Missouri, Polk county
Well it sounds half ok, but yes you should be able to lock in your hubs and drive it in 2wd.
I can do that with my bronco and it has a locker in the front...
I can not remember what type locker you put in the front end, that might be the issue??
I can do that with my bronco and it has a locker in the front...
I can not remember what type locker you put in the front end, that might be the issue??
Hotshot
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,797
Likes: 2,599
From: The Shenandoah Valley
Originally Posted by 61steven
Okay so I went out and filled the transfer case. After that I went out and tried shutting the truck off, locking the hubs, putting it in 4h and then testing it out in 1st. This worked and the binding noise was not there. I did hear some clunking from the transfer case while testing it various times though.
Originally Posted by 61steven
I could not drive the truck with the hubs locked and the transfer case in 2wd though. I thought people do that during the winter so they don't need to get out for 4x4? It feels like something in the front axle is binding when I do that.
Try this test , engine off, parking brake set, transmission in low gear .... unlock hubs .... place TC in 2wh (or where you believe it to be) .... slide under truck and try to rotate the front driveshaft. It should rotate. If it seems "locked", try it again with TC in neutral, etc.
Originally Posted by 77&79F250
... etc ... yes you should be able to lock in your hubs and drive it in 2wd.
.... you should be able to run in 2hi with hubs locked year round and some Dodge owners had to until they bought a set of hubs. I do that some in winter if there's snow / ice I might get into, hubs locked but run it in 2hi. Only if I am on slick surfaces will I then pull that lever to 4hi and I try to get it back into 2hi before hitting firm traction again so I don't have to "back up".
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The noise only happens when I am moving. It shifts from gear to gear smoothly. Well except for 4lo. I put it in 4lo with the hubs locked. No bad noises while moving but the shifter was stuck in 4 lo. I had to shut off the truck and unlock the hubs to move the lever from 4 lo.
I will do that later on for sure. How much play should there be? Should the front driveshaft spin indefinitely? Or should the rotation be limited?
If the truck was stuck in 4hi, why would it give me fits with the hubs locked?
In the next week or two it is going back to have the front outer axle seal replaced(again) and under warranty. I should be able to check out the internals of the diff when that is being done.
77&79- The front had a TrueTrac put in the front by the PO.
Thanks for the info and troubleshooting guys. Im learning as I go from here and a chiltons manual. Never owned a 4x4 myself.
I will do that later on for sure. How much play should there be? Should the front driveshaft spin indefinitely? Or should the rotation be limited?
If the truck was stuck in 4hi, why would it give me fits with the hubs locked?
In the next week or two it is going back to have the front outer axle seal replaced(again) and under warranty. I should be able to check out the internals of the diff when that is being done.
77&79- The front had a TrueTrac put in the front by the PO.
Thanks for the info and troubleshooting guys. Im learning as I go from here and a chiltons manual. Never owned a 4x4 myself.