Advice on odd Injector oil mark on cap
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Elder User
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 536
Likes: 2
From: N. Va.
Advice on odd Injector oil mark on cap
My 01' (161K) has a slight miss, high #8 Perdel at 5.9% and a knock that comes and goes. I have crawled all over the motor and it appears the noise is in fact coming from #8 hole.
I pulled #8 from my spare 03' motor (99k) to use as a replacement and found what appears to be an odd burnt oil ring around the cap of the injector. Also in the cup was residual sludge, not fresh oil from the pull. This motor started and ran well but did blow a little blue smoke when revving the motor while parked.
Anyone see this before? Possibly a bad injector cup? Thanks for your input....
#8
[IMG]
[/IMG]
#8 Cup. That's sludge.
[IMG]
[/IMG]
#8 and #6 comparison
[IMG]
[/IMG]
I pulled #8 from my spare 03' motor (99k) to use as a replacement and found what appears to be an odd burnt oil ring around the cap of the injector. Also in the cup was residual sludge, not fresh oil from the pull. This motor started and ran well but did blow a little blue smoke when revving the motor while parked.
Anyone see this before? Possibly a bad injector cup? Thanks for your input....
#8
[IMG]
[/IMG]#8 Cup. That's sludge.
[IMG]
[/IMG]#8 and #6 comparison
[IMG]
[/IMG]
Lead Driver
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,760
Likes: 27
From: Hampton, Maryland.
This may be way off base, and I doubt you would be able to confirm this seeing as how it is a spare motor that you got and you probably didn't own the truck it came out of-I wonder if the truck was usually parked on a hill at night or sat on an angle for long periods of time. 99K miles isn't a lot so I doubt it was a daily driver. Maybe the motor when pulled sat at an angle before you bought it. Seems kind of odd that they both have them at a very similar angle. When my original injectors were pulled some had stains some didn't but they weren't at an angle like that.
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Elder User
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 536
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From: N. Va.
Thanks for the reply. This motor came out of an 03' Ambulance I purchased. I heard they sit running at idle for long periods of time and can accelerate injector wear. I pulled the motor and it has been on the stand for the last 6 months.
It looks like oil leaked down to the cup and just sat and cooked. The lower injector seal looks worn but with no obvious signs of failure that I could see. I just want to understand what happened here. My money is on bad orings right now.
It looks like oil leaked down to the cup and just sat and cooked. The lower injector seal looks worn but with no obvious signs of failure that I could see. I just want to understand what happened here. My money is on bad orings right now.
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 18,849
Likes: 179
From: Puget Sound
Yes, bad O-rings. The fuel (or fuel and oil, in your case) escape past the O-rings, but not past the copper washer at the injector tip. So... there the fluid sits in the cup... at an angle (V8)... cooking.
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Elder User
Joined: Jun 2012
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From: N. Va.
Thanks guys.... now to swap #8 out and see if my perdels cooperate. I am currently running the dark blue CPS. I tried a new grey with same results. Fuel pressure is good at 57psi. I have the intermittent knock and slight hesitation while slowly accelerating from a stop. Also in neutral at about 1400rpm there seems to be a slight miss.
Since I have the Frx fuel crossover from RiffRaff I can use a standard AD injector in #8 hole correct?
These are the two holes I'm concerned with.
#3 = 1.1% or so
#8 = 5.9% +-.5%
All the rest are 0%
Since I have the Frx fuel crossover from RiffRaff I can use a standard AD injector in #8 hole correct?
These are the two holes I'm concerned with.
#3 = 1.1% or so
#8 = 5.9% +-.5%
All the rest are 0%
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 18,849
Likes: 179
From: Puget Sound
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Lead Driver
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,760
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From: Hampton, Maryland.
Percent delivery I believe is what a perdel is. Which basically is-if there is a number more than 0 means it is off by that percentage in cylinder contribution to the rotation of the crank.
It's a Van Gogh
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 7,795
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From: Elk Grove, CA
Thanks guys.... now to swap #8 out and see if my perdels cooperate. I am currently running the dark blue CPS. I tried a new grey with same results. Fuel pressure is good at 57psi. I have the intermittent knock and slight hesitation while slowly accelerating from a stop. Also in neutral at about 1400rpm there seems to be a slight miss.
Since I have the Frx fuel crossover from RiffRaff I can use a standard AD injector in #8 hole correct?
These are the two holes I'm concerned with.
#3 = 1.1% or so
#8 = 5.9% +-.5%
All the rest are 0%
Since I have the Frx fuel crossover from RiffRaff I can use a standard AD injector in #8 hole correct?
These are the two holes I'm concerned with.
#3 = 1.1% or so
#8 = 5.9% +-.5%
All the rest are 0%
Those are typical numbers, don't go swapping injectors based on that alone. Here is a good thread by Ken on the CPS subject. The chart below illustrating perdels of various CPS is from that page.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,647
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From: north of Minneapolis, MN
I think it's best to understand that the LL injector, and depending on what "color" cps is installed, has significant impact on perdels. I seem to recall that Ken's readings are with LL injector in place. Rich's and mine are no LL injector in the #8 hole....and I have a black CPS installed.
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 18,849
Likes: 179
From: Puget Sound
I think it's best to understand that the LL injector, and depending on what "color" cps is installed, has significant impact on perdels. I seem to recall that Ken's readings are with LL injector in place. Rich's and mine are no LL injector in the #8 hole....and I have a black CPS installed.