Patriot Act
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,060
Likes: 12
From: arizona
Patriot Act
This craziness has got to stop before it gets going. How can the government justify going into anyones house at any time just because they think they are or maybe associated with terrorism? I don't think so!
My right to privacy is worth more than that......stop terrorism at the border, not at my house.
What do think?
My right to privacy is worth more than that......stop terrorism at the border, not at my house.
What do think?
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,628
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From: Baileyton, TN
Patriot Act
Terrorism is the hardest form of violence to police - every government that has suffered from it brings in measures that allow sweeping powers to the federal forces. There is very little anyone can do to stop the trend because the alternative is a massive influx of terrorists entering and residing in the country. Having such powers makes it a harder decision for the terrorist, even though it does infringe on the freedoms of the nation.
Stopping terrorists at the border is an impossible task - no country knows the identities of all terrorists - some are so covered that nobody knows them by sight, and they often look just like anyone else you may see on the high street. A large amount of terrorists on the 'list' are not Arabs, but Africans, who look like the were born here.
This being said, having the possibility of a federal raid on my home, because someone thinks I am a terror risk is a little unnerving given the total chaos caused on Ruby Ridge, and Waco, TX.
What you need is a very strong door, and a video camera - that way, when they come for you, you will be able to see who they are, and not get blown away by them when you rush out of the bedroom with a shotgun.
Theo
Stopping terrorists at the border is an impossible task - no country knows the identities of all terrorists - some are so covered that nobody knows them by sight, and they often look just like anyone else you may see on the high street. A large amount of terrorists on the 'list' are not Arabs, but Africans, who look like the were born here.
This being said, having the possibility of a federal raid on my home, because someone thinks I am a terror risk is a little unnerving given the total chaos caused on Ruby Ridge, and Waco, TX.
What you need is a very strong door, and a video camera - that way, when they come for you, you will be able to see who they are, and not get blown away by them when you rush out of the bedroom with a shotgun.
Theo
Senior User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 312
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From: Eugene Oregon
Patriot Act
The way Bush and AShcroft have gutted this once great nation's constitution is the most anti- American treason any 'elected' official have ever committed, a hundred times worse than Clinton, and the Republican sheep just glote like Rush tells them to. Sick and sad.
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,359
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From: Charleston, SC
Patriot Act
Who has been violated? I haven't heard of a case yet. It would be okay for them to look in my house if they kick some terrorists in the backside as a result. We have to start watching out for eachother, maybe we could have saved 3000 people in NY.
I have nothing to hide. How did we make this a Bush/Clinton thing? If Carter/Johnson/Clinton hadn't mismanaged the policies so bad and empowered the terrorists, we wouldn't be in this fix now.
They didn't pull this nonsense on Ronald Reagun.
I have nothing to hide. How did we make this a Bush/Clinton thing? If Carter/Johnson/Clinton hadn't mismanaged the policies so bad and empowered the terrorists, we wouldn't be in this fix now.
They didn't pull this nonsense on Ronald Reagun.
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Laughing Gas
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,060
Likes: 12
From: arizona
Patriot Act
Yea, I guess nothing has surfaced yet but give it time. You know as well as I know this will be abused and someone will lose because of it.
I am willing to let 100 BAD guys go (and catch them later) if it saves 1 innocent person. See, it's ok as long as you're not the ONE person.....huh?
The terrorists got away with one BIG bang....what have they done since? I say be careful.....don't infringe on MY rights.
I am willing to let 100 BAD guys go (and catch them later) if it saves 1 innocent person. See, it's ok as long as you're not the ONE person.....huh?
The terrorists got away with one BIG bang....what have they done since? I say be careful.....don't infringe on MY rights.
FIX YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS!
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 201
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From: Central U.S
Patriot Act
Originally posted by bigdmizer
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both".
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both".
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Senior User
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 481
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From: St. Petersburg, FL
Patriot Act
Oh come one now, Unless you're a terrorist or some kind of criminal with a reason to be worried, there's no point in this argument. Sorry.
Those who incessantly tote around the guise of no liberty, injustice, constitutional rights violations and right to privacy crap need reconsider.
We've come this far, now we need to keep it this way. That means security and defense. We can no longer sit around idle and be reactive. We must be proactive.
I highly doubt any of our doors will be bashed down anytime soon.
However, there are those amongst us who do not deserve the rights that this great nation can afford them; they are the targets.
P.S.
Great quote, bigdmizer.
Those who incessantly tote around the guise of no liberty, injustice, constitutional rights violations and right to privacy crap need reconsider.
We've come this far, now we need to keep it this way. That means security and defense. We can no longer sit around idle and be reactive. We must be proactive.
I highly doubt any of our doors will be bashed down anytime soon.
However, there are those amongst us who do not deserve the rights that this great nation can afford them; they are the targets.
P.S.
Great quote, bigdmizer.
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Posting Guru
Joined: May 2003
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From: Thomson, GA
Patriot Act
Naming it the patriot act? You don't get much more facist than that. (dictionary.com- facist: A system of government marked by... a policy of belligerent nationalism...) And no, I don't think that anyone will be woken up by the swat team, because I read the act, not all of it, but most of it. http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/hr3162.html
The act has more to do with surveillance than breaking down doors, but I can't say that I agree with that, either.
The act has more to do with surveillance than breaking down doors, but I can't say that I agree with that, either.
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 448
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Patriot Act
How about this quote.
"The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away, for expedients."
--Edmund Burke
Baja Daze - From your post it seems like you don't even understand the quote from Benjamin Franklin, which actually reads:
"Those who give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
--Benjamin Franklin
Whistler
"The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away, for expedients."
--Edmund Burke
Baja Daze - From your post it seems like you don't even understand the quote from Benjamin Franklin, which actually reads:
"Those who give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
--Benjamin Franklin
Whistler
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 262
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From: Tucson
Patriot Act
Originally posted by whistler
Baja Daze - From your post it seems like you don't even understand the quote from Benjamin Franklin, which actually reads:
"Those who give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
--Benjamin Franklin
Baja Daze - From your post it seems like you don't even understand the quote from Benjamin Franklin, which actually reads:
"Those who give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
--Benjamin Franklin
what do you mean he doesn't understand the quote? Your quote is the same as the one he posted, just re-worded a little bit.
Senior User
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 312
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From: Eugene Oregon
Patriot Act
Yeah, I am mollified now, knowing that only those Americans, some on this very site, who don't deserve the former Constitution and its silly Bill of Rights anyways, will be the only ones targeted. Secret police know best, ask any KGB surviver.
Senior User
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 481
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From: St. Petersburg, FL
Patriot Act
Thanks Whistler. I understood the quote just fine, however.
I simply don't feel we've given up anything. Some people may have lost an ideal, I have gained or lost nothing.
I will go about my business as usual and so will 99.99% of us. But if one's wrongdoings bring forth a watchful eye, perhaps it is for good reason.
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62uni,
With all due respect, I regret being the one to point this out to you, but there are those amongst us who truly do not deserve the protections and rights that a normal law-abiding, hard-working, tax-paying, contributing member of this American society are given; It is sad that some willfully abuse and take advantage of these rights and are ready and willing to use it against us. If you do not believe this, you should have paid more attention a little less than two years ago. It was not the first time and it won't be the last. The best we can do collectively is reduce the oppourtunities they may have to repeat.
I simply don't feel we've given up anything. Some people may have lost an ideal, I have gained or lost nothing.
I will go about my business as usual and so will 99.99% of us. But if one's wrongdoings bring forth a watchful eye, perhaps it is for good reason.
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62uni,
With all due respect, I regret being the one to point this out to you, but there are those amongst us who truly do not deserve the protections and rights that a normal law-abiding, hard-working, tax-paying, contributing member of this American society are given; It is sad that some willfully abuse and take advantage of these rights and are ready and willing to use it against us. If you do not believe this, you should have paid more attention a little less than two years ago. It was not the first time and it won't be the last. The best we can do collectively is reduce the oppourtunities they may have to repeat.
Posting Guru
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,393
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From: Thomson, GA
Patriot Act
I don't remember the 9/11 atrocities being planned in the US, so anything we could have done would not have helped. I do believe that there are terrorists in the US, as last night on the news, there were 3 that had paid a worker at the DMV for fake drivers liscences (all were of carribian decent) and I would hope that the FBI or whoever it is would take care of them, but not at the cost of any freedoms. And baja daze is right, 99.99% of us will go not be bothered by this, but only because we don't know that they know what they know about us. Imagine being on one of those "Real World" shows with the cameras on you and phone calls broadcast to anyone who is listening. I have nothing to hide, but that does not mean that I want washington knowing what I like on my pizza.