AC Not Working?
Junior User
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
From: Northern Az
IN order to put r-12 or 134, you will have to have a shop do it. You cant buy r-12 without a license. You can retro fit your system for r134 yourself, but you legally have to take it to a shop to have the system evacuated before you can put the kit on. Also r-134 and r12 wont mix, so the system has to be completely changed over includeing the oil. Another thing is the r-134 doesnt cool nearly as well as r-12, so your system wont work very well if it was designed for r12 and you convert it to r134. The product above, not only is safe, it works better than the r12 or the 134 and costs less. Do whatever works for you, I am just saying the envirosafe worked great for me. Good Luck
Junior User
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
From: Northern Az
when i got my certification many years ago, enviro-safe was used as a replacement for R-12 back in 93-94 it was 75% butane and worked very good.
but it was also very flammable, and cause a few fires after the vehicles were involved in accidents with refrigerant leaks.
for that reason hydrocarbon refrigerants were declared non DOT approved and illegal for use.
i just looked at the enviro-safe MSDS, and it still has a very dangerous fire and explosion hazard rating.
Low Flammability Limit:2.6%, Upper Flammability Limit: 9%
Fire and Explosion Hazard: Flammable vapor may form if allowed to mix with air. Accumulation of gas is an ignition hazard. Vapors are heavier than air and may travel to an ignition source.
but it was also very flammable, and cause a few fires after the vehicles were involved in accidents with refrigerant leaks.
for that reason hydrocarbon refrigerants were declared non DOT approved and illegal for use.
i just looked at the enviro-safe MSDS, and it still has a very dangerous fire and explosion hazard rating.
Low Flammability Limit:2.6%, Upper Flammability Limit: 9%
Fire and Explosion Hazard: Flammable vapor may form if allowed to mix with air. Accumulation of gas is an ignition hazard. Vapors are heavier than air and may travel to an ignition source.
<table border="1"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#cccccc"><td bgcolor="#cccccc" width="148">Properties
</td><td bgcolor="#cccccc">R-12
</td><td bgcolor="#cccccc">R-134a
</td><td bgcolor="#cccccc">Enviro-Safe-12a
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Atmospheric Lifetime Year
</td><td>130
</td><td>16
</td><td>less than 1
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">G.W.P. (CO2=.05)
</td><td>3650
</td><td>600
</td><td>4
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">O.D.P. (R-12=1.0)
</td><td>1.0
</td><td>0
</td><td>0
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Thermal Performance
</td><td>0
</td><td>-8%
</td><td>+12-32%
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Oils Compatibility
</td><td>Mineral
</td><td>Synthetic
</td><td>Both
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Component changes or wear
</td><td>No
</td><td>Yes
</td><td>No
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Potential Corrosion
</td><td>Yes
</td><td>Yes
</td><td>No
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Toxic Thermal Decomposition
</td><td>Phosgene Gas
</td><td>Hydrogen Fluoride Gas
</td><td>None
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Long Term Health Effects
</td><td>None
</td><td>Tumors on *********
</td><td>None
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Short Term Health Risks
</td><td>None
</td><td>May cause death
</td><td>None
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Leak Detection
</td><td>Halide
</td><td>Halide
</td><td>Hydrocarbon
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Boiling Point (f)
</td><td>-21
</td><td>-15
</td><td>-30.4
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Critical Temp. (f)
</td><td>233.6
</td><td>214
</td><td>205
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Auto-ignition (f) 0 psi
</td><td>Nonflammable
</td><td>1411
</td><td>1585
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Auto-ignition (f) 5 psi
</td><td>Nonflammable
</td><td>368
</td><td>1585
</td></tr></tbody></table>
maybe they have changed the formula since 1993-94. Van
Logistics Pro
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,221
Likes: 17
Never tried it, looks like a good deal though.
Postmaster
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,860
Likes: 7
If you look at the specs, the flamability rateing is higher than r134.
<table border="1"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#cccccc"><td bgcolor="#cccccc" width="148">Properties
</td><td bgcolor="#cccccc">R-12
</td><td bgcolor="#cccccc">R-134a
</td><td bgcolor="#cccccc">Enviro-Safe-12a
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Atmospheric Lifetime Year
</td><td>130
</td><td>16
</td><td>less than 1
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">G.W.P. (CO2=.05)
</td><td>3650
</td><td>600
</td><td>4
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">O.D.P. (R-12=1.0)
</td><td>1.0
</td><td>0
</td><td>0
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Thermal Performance
</td><td>0
</td><td>-8%
</td><td>+12-32%
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Oils Compatibility
</td><td>Mineral
</td><td>Synthetic
</td><td>Both
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Component changes or wear
</td><td>No
</td><td>Yes
</td><td>No
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Potential Corrosion
</td><td>Yes
</td><td>Yes
</td><td>No
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Toxic Thermal Decomposition
</td><td>Phosgene Gas
</td><td>Hydrogen Fluoride Gas
</td><td>None
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Long Term Health Effects
</td><td>None
</td><td>Tumors on *********
</td><td>None
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Short Term Health Risks
</td><td>None
</td><td>May cause death
</td><td>None
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Leak Detection
</td><td>Halide
</td><td>Halide
</td><td>Hydrocarbon
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Boiling Point (f)
</td><td>-21
</td><td>-15
</td><td>-30.4
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Critical Temp. (f)
</td><td>233.6
</td><td>214
</td><td>205
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Auto-ignition (f) 0 psi
</td><td>Nonflammable
</td><td>1411
</td><td>1585
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Auto-ignition (f) 5 psi
</td><td>Nonflammable
</td><td>368
</td><td>1585
</td></tr></tbody></table>
maybe they have changed the formula since 1993-94. Van
<table border="1"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#cccccc"><td bgcolor="#cccccc" width="148">Properties
</td><td bgcolor="#cccccc">R-12
</td><td bgcolor="#cccccc">R-134a
</td><td bgcolor="#cccccc">Enviro-Safe-12a
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Atmospheric Lifetime Year
</td><td>130
</td><td>16
</td><td>less than 1
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">G.W.P. (CO2=.05)
</td><td>3650
</td><td>600
</td><td>4
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">O.D.P. (R-12=1.0)
</td><td>1.0
</td><td>0
</td><td>0
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Thermal Performance
</td><td>0
</td><td>-8%
</td><td>+12-32%
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Oils Compatibility
</td><td>Mineral
</td><td>Synthetic
</td><td>Both
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Component changes or wear
</td><td>No
</td><td>Yes
</td><td>No
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Potential Corrosion
</td><td>Yes
</td><td>Yes
</td><td>No
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Toxic Thermal Decomposition
</td><td>Phosgene Gas
</td><td>Hydrogen Fluoride Gas
</td><td>None
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Long Term Health Effects
</td><td>None
</td><td>Tumors on *********
</td><td>None
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Short Term Health Risks
</td><td>None
</td><td>May cause death
</td><td>None
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Leak Detection
</td><td>Halide
</td><td>Halide
</td><td>Hydrocarbon
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Boiling Point (f)
</td><td>-21
</td><td>-15
</td><td>-30.4
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Critical Temp. (f)
</td><td>233.6
</td><td>214
</td><td>205
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Auto-ignition (f) 0 psi
</td><td>Nonflammable
</td><td>1411
</td><td>1585
</td></tr><tr><td width="148">Auto-ignition (f) 5 psi
</td><td>Nonflammable
</td><td>368
</td><td>1585
</td></tr></tbody></table>
maybe they have changed the formula since 1993-94. Van
I mean... it's not like the amount in one of these AC systems is any more than one of those little torch bottles of propane. :/
(PS, this would explain why my system worked so much better than stock when I charged it... <_<)
Logistics Pro
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,221
Likes: 17
Hm, if my choice is 'lights at 1500F' vs 'Tumors on *********', I think I'll take the chance of fire. :P
I mean... it's not like the amount in one of these AC systems is any more than one of those little torch bottles of propane. :/
(PS, this would explain why my system worked so much better than stock when I charged it... <_<)
I mean... it's not like the amount in one of these AC systems is any more than one of those little torch bottles of propane. :/
(PS, this would explain why my system worked so much better than stock when I charged it... <_<)
Good catch, I missed that. Now why in the hell would anyone be spraying that stuff on their private parts? 
Never mind, I don't want to know. 
You know, if I was concerned about flammables in my car in case of an accident I'd stop putting gasoline in it.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,221
Likes: 17
Anyway, what ever refrigerant you decide on, here's a series of videos from Autozone regarding diagnosing, repair, and service of the vehicle's AC system. It's actually quite good:
***Snipped*** See below.
Here's a A/C Manifold @ Harbor Freight:
AC Gauges - Save on this AC Manifold Gauge Set
I looked at this AFTER I bought and used my Inter-Dynamics set. The HF set looks to be superior quality, has a case, and nearly half the cost.
This is the vacuum pump I have for the time being, better one posted below. This one runs of your shop air compressor and struggles to do the job, but it does kinda work.
Vacuum Pump - AC Vacuum Pump w/ R134A & R12 Connectors
Someday I'm going to spring for this one:
Electric Vacuum Pump - 2.5 CFM
Hope that all helps!
***Snipped*** See below.
Here's a A/C Manifold @ Harbor Freight:
AC Gauges - Save on this AC Manifold Gauge Set
I looked at this AFTER I bought and used my Inter-Dynamics set. The HF set looks to be superior quality, has a case, and nearly half the cost.
This is the vacuum pump I have for the time being, better one posted below. This one runs of your shop air compressor and struggles to do the job, but it does kinda work.
Vacuum Pump - AC Vacuum Pump w/ R134A & R12 Connectors
Someday I'm going to spring for this one:
Electric Vacuum Pump - 2.5 CFM
Hope that all helps!
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Logistics Pro
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,221
Likes: 17
Somehow I crashed the thread posting that video link..... really weird, it tries to do it's youtube in a window thing and kicks out of the whole thread and gives a page not found error for FTE!
So, go to youtube, search for Autozone, find their channel then about 3 down they have "AC Repair Guide".
So, go to youtube, search for Autozone, find their channel then about 3 down they have "AC Repair Guide".
Senior User
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 298
Likes: 0
From: Saint Maries Idaho
When I build my CC I think that I now know which refrigerant I am NOT going to use in the A/C system.
I havent had to worry about that in the past as none of my current rigs have A/C.
Hm, if my choice is 'lights at 1500F' vs 'Tumors on *********', I think I'll take the chance of fire. :P
I mean... it's not like the amount in one of these AC systems is any more than one of those little torch bottles of propane. :/
(PS, this would explain why my system worked so much better than stock when I charged it... <_<)
I mean... it's not like the amount in one of these AC systems is any more than one of those little torch bottles of propane. :/
(PS, this would explain why my system worked so much better than stock when I charged it... <_<)
Thread Starter
|
New User
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From: Fort Worth
Well I dragged the AC Equipment out of the closet last night and it has R134a fittings so i havnt been able to test system pressure yet but I noticed my compressor isn't kicking on, fuse wasnt blown but the connector for the compressor seemed like it had been broken when someone tried to pry it off...i'll test for voltage later tonight and have a buddy bring his AC gauges to test with. Idk if the compressor is bad or if the low pressure is keeping it from switching on. Any way to test the compressor without charging the system?I'd hate to spend the money on ref. just to have to evacuate it after i've found out compressor is bad.
i ain't rite
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 65,569
Likes: 5,606
From: Marlboro Mental Hospital.
to test compressor jump the low pressure switch.
but if the compressor power plug is buggered up, you may have to run power to the compressor terminals direct from battery.
this will engage the clutch, and you will be able to hear if the compressor bearings are good or not.
and just because the compressor spins without noise does not mean it is good. i have seen compressors that spin good, but have bad internals that have equal pressure on both high and low sides.
but if the compressor power plug is buggered up, you may have to run power to the compressor terminals direct from battery.
this will engage the clutch, and you will be able to hear if the compressor bearings are good or not.
and just because the compressor spins without noise does not mean it is good. i have seen compressors that spin good, but have bad internals that have equal pressure on both high and low sides.
Thread Starter
|
New User
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From: Fort Worth
Anyway, what ever refrigerant you decide on, here's a series of videos from Autozone regarding diagnosing, repair, and service of the vehicle's AC system. It's actually quite good:
***Snipped*** See below.
Here's a A/C Manifold @ Harbor Freight:
AC Gauges - Save on this AC Manifold Gauge Set
I looked at this AFTER I bought and used my Inter-Dynamics set. The HF set looks to be superior quality, has a case, and nearly half the cost.
This is the vacuum pump I have for the time being, better one posted below. This one runs of your shop air compressor and struggles to do the job, but it does kinda work.
Vacuum Pump - AC Vacuum Pump w/ R134A & R12 Connectors
Someday I'm going to spring for this one:
Electric Vacuum Pump - 2.5 CFM
Hope that all helps!
***Snipped*** See below.
Here's a A/C Manifold @ Harbor Freight:
AC Gauges - Save on this AC Manifold Gauge Set
I looked at this AFTER I bought and used my Inter-Dynamics set. The HF set looks to be superior quality, has a case, and nearly half the cost.
This is the vacuum pump I have for the time being, better one posted below. This one runs of your shop air compressor and struggles to do the job, but it does kinda work.
Vacuum Pump - AC Vacuum Pump w/ R134A & R12 Connectors
Someday I'm going to spring for this one:
Electric Vacuum Pump - 2.5 CFM
Hope that all helps!
New User
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: valliant ok
freeze12 is r12 + r134a?
i had a buddy of mine switch me from r12 to r134a but i didnt have the r134a adapter. the next summer i juiced it up with the old style r12 and its blows cold. so in other words i have a mixture of both and so far so good. i have always been told not to mix them. freeze12 = r12 + r134a. that is mixed.