Ficm question
Certified Thread Hijacker
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 14,441
Likes: 59
I believe it's been proven that low FICM voltage actually doesn't cause any harm and injectors were being replaced before the reality of FICM voltages was understood.
The injector coils hardly ever fail regardless of voltage. If anything, it's the 58 volt modded FICM that would cause more issues than running 35-40 volts.
Not sure how using Ohm's law people get amps increase when voltage decreases. Only way that occurs is if the resistance also changes, which it doesn't.
Josh
The injector coils hardly ever fail regardless of voltage. If anything, it's the 58 volt modded FICM that would cause more issues than running 35-40 volts.
Not sure how using Ohm's law people get amps increase when voltage decreases. Only way that occurs is if the resistance also changes, which it doesn't.
Josh
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,424
Likes: 12
From: BC Canada
At lower voltage, amperage has to increase in order to multiply to 48 volts, without increasing amperage, there is no amplification of voltage required. The result being lower voltage instead of the required 48 volts. I don't think amperage isn't probably doing the solenoids any damage in the injectors, but the increased amps in the wiring harness and on the heat generation of the boards in the FICM are not going to be good. This is where you get the melting solder and why the heat causes damage. I am not saying which comes first, the damaged boards in the FICM, or the harness, but basically, bad batteries, bad alternator leads to a chain of events. I do agree, the increased 58 voltage system has other harmful effects.
Certified Thread Hijacker
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 14,441
Likes: 59
At lower voltage, amperage has to increase in order to multiply to 48 volts, without increasing amperage, there is no amplification of voltage required. The result being lower voltage instead of the required 48 volts. I don't think amperage isn't probably doing the solenoids any damage in the injectors, but the increased amps in the wiring harness and on the heat generation of the boards in the FICM are not going to be good. This is where you get the melting solder and why the heat causes damage. I am not saying which comes first, the damaged boards in the FICM, or the harness, but basically, bad batteries, bad alternator leads to a chain of events. I do agree, the increased 58 voltage system has other harmful effects.
If the injectors are seeing less volts they produce less current (amps)
Once the voltage is low enough the spools no longer respond properly.
Josh
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,424
Likes: 12
From: BC Canada
If you say so, I think the voltage is not what forces the injector to plunge, it's the current, kinda like the difference between HP and Torque. But, that is only true to a point IIRC, because the wire carrying the voltage, has a capacity limit for current. Anyways, point being, all the issues above with low source voltage, poor batteries, poor alternator are leading to a dying FICM, which in tern can't drive the injectors accordingly, which then means poor efficiency of the motor, poor burning of fuel, smoke, poor mileage. Consider this thread officially hijacked! O/o
Certified Thread Hijacker
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 14,441
Likes: 59
If you say so, I think the voltage is not what forces the injector to plunge, it's the current, kinda like the difference between HP and Torque. But, that is only true to a point IIRC, because the wire carrying the voltage, has a capacity limit for current. Anyways, point being, all the issues above with low source voltage, poor batteries, poor alternator are leading to a dying FICM, which in tern can't drive the injectors accordingly, which then means poor efficiency of the motor, poor burning of fuel, smoke, poor mileage. Consider this thread officially hijacked! O/o
The coils couldn't care less what the spool is doing. There is no stall current like an electric motor.
Josh
Cargo Master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,833
Likes: 4
From: Jefferson, Iowa
At lower voltage, amperage has to increase in order to multiply to 48 volts, without increasing amperage, there is no amplification of voltage required. The result being lower voltage instead of the required 48 volts. I don't think amperage isn't probably doing the solenoids any damage in the injectors, but the increased amps in the wiring harness and on the heat generation of the boards in the FICM are not going to be good. This is where you get the melting solder and why the heat causes damage. I am not saying which comes first, the damaged boards in the FICM, or the harness, but basically, bad batteries, bad alternator leads to a chain of events. I do agree, the increased 58 voltage system has other harmful effects.
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
2027 Ford Super Duty Buyer's Guide (Every Model, Engine, & Package)
Brett Foote
Top 10 Ford Truck Tragedies
Joe Kucinski
AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make
Brett Foote
Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!
Michael S. Palmer
Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home
Verdad Gallardo
10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!
Joe Kucinski
2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road: Better Than a Raptor R?
Brett Foote
2027 Super Duty Carhartt Package First Look: 12 Things You NEED to Know!
Michael S. Palmer
10 Most Surprising 2026 Ford Truck Features!
Joe Kucinski
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,424
Likes: 12
From: BC Canada
I am not talking about the injectors, but the transformer in the FICM which is making increased heat, by trying to amplify the volts from battery to 48 volts. I was thinking this would increase current in the board, melting solder and causing issues, which would then result in lower voltage at the injector, thus less efficient operation. Granted, what you guys are saying is correct, best I know, but what I am trying to explain, is the problem with improper battery and alternator and the consequences on the FICM and eventually the injector. I agree, if there is lower voltage at the injector coil, then it has less effect injecting fuel, which will then cause poorer operation, poorer atomization, mileage, power. If the FICM was creating 48 volts and firing injectors properly, then you have optimum performance. Lower volts, has to decrease the performance of injector. Perhaps it doesn't damage thee injector, but it's not doing it any favors and over time, the injector is going to get gummed up, starting to stick. Maybe not the cause of stiction, but it can't be helping.
Certified Thread Hijacker
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 14,441
Likes: 59
I am not talking about the injectors, but the transformer in the FICM which is making increased heat, by trying to amplify the volts from battery to 48 volts. I was thinking this would increase current in the board, melting solder and causing issues, which would then result in lower voltage at the injector, thus less efficient operation. Granted, what you guys are saying is correct, best I know, but what I am trying to explain, is the problem with improper battery and alternator and the consequences on the FICM and eventually the injector. I agree, if there is lower voltage at the injector coil, then it has less effect injecting fuel, which will then cause poorer operation, poorer atomization, mileage, power. If the FICM was creating 48 volts and firing injectors properly, then you have optimum performance. Lower volts, has to decrease the performance of injector. Perhaps it doesn't damage thee injector, but it's not doing it any favors and over time, the injector is going to get gummed up, starting to stick. Maybe not the cause of stiction, but it can't be helping.
The FICM power side is a simple step-up DC-DC transformer with resistors to limit volts. It doesn't know, nor care what the output is, it just does what it can with what it's fed.
The opposite of the main system reference voltage regulator that takes the 14+ volts and regulates to 5 volts. To an extent, it doesn't care how much it is fed, the output is regulated.
Josh
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 15,368
Likes: 121
From: Stuttgart, Ar
Maybe, but it's GREAT information for us electrically challenged guys. I was always taught that less volts causes more amps too, but I can see that it doesn't necessarily apply in this case. Good discussion gentlemen, carry on.
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,424
Likes: 12
From: BC Canada
Yeah the regulated part of either system would be where I fall behind. I can see regulating down to the 5v so that no matter what is going in, 12 - 14 volts, you get reference 5v. Are you saying the 48v in the FICM is regulated, plus or minus 0.5 v, irregardless of input volts, ranging from 11 - 14 volts?
Certified Thread Hijacker
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 14,441
Likes: 59
Yeah the regulated part of either system would be where I fall behind. I can see regulating down to the 5v so that no matter what is going in, 12 - 14 volts, you get reference 5v. Are you saying the 48v in the FICM is regulated, plus or minus 0.5 v, irregardless of input volts, ranging from 11 - 14 volts?
However I do not believe the FICM is designed that way, and uses resistors to bring down the voltage to 48. At least with a simplified explanation.
It's a poor design that relies too much on input voltage. As a reference Deere and Cat engines use 600 volts to fire their injectors, yet the control modules failing is extremely rare.
Josh
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
y2kc0wb0y
6.0L Power Stroke Diesel
17
May 13, 2019 03:27 PM