Injection line Timing Adapter
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Postmaster
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From: Maple Valley, WA
Injection line Timing Adapter
Im curious if anybody knows the output signal from the inline timing adapter on the 7.3's for the Rotunda meter?
I have a killer idea for a "revolutionary" mod, and if I can use the adapter for a signal, it will make my job easier.
I tried reading voltage off of it, but I didn't get anything (piezo), so I don't know if my adapter is bad, or if it puts out something else, or maybe nothing at all (mechanical adapter).
I have the equipment to convert a signal to what I need, I just need to know what signal it is.
Any help would be appreciated.
I have a killer idea for a "revolutionary" mod, and if I can use the adapter for a signal, it will make my job easier.
I tried reading voltage off of it, but I didn't get anything (piezo), so I don't know if my adapter is bad, or if it puts out something else, or maybe nothing at all (mechanical adapter).
I have the equipment to convert a signal to what I need, I just need to know what signal it is.
Any help would be appreciated.
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Joined: Dec 2012
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From: western washington
maybe it is a inductor that changes the path to ground, and triggers a transistor, it would be a very tiny change in resistance, when you looked for a voltage spike did you have your meter on millivolt's the signal will be tiny.
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Do note that if you can't get it to work, you could also use a luminosity probe for this; it's basically a little quartz window into the cyl through the GP port, upon which a little photo-diode is mounted. You can then use that to determine pulses.
You'd also need a reference signal -- a magnetic pickup on the harmonic dampener should do that.
Do note that if you're thinking about a tach, its far easier to just use the tach sender we already have, and divide by 53 to get revolutions.
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Postmaster
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From: Maple Valley, WA
I had it on millivolts, and didn't see any difference in output compared to thin air.
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Postmaster
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From: Maple Valley, WA
Real-time timing information?
Do note that if you can't get it to work, you could also use a luminosity probe for this; it's basically a little quartz window into the cyl through the GP port, upon which a little photo-diode is mounted. You can then use that to determine pulses.
You'd also need a reference signal -- a magnetic pickup on the harmonic dampener should do that.
Do note that if you're thinking about a tach, its far easier to just use the tach sender we already have, and divide by 53 to get revolutions.
Do note that if you can't get it to work, you could also use a luminosity probe for this; it's basically a little quartz window into the cyl through the GP port, upon which a little photo-diode is mounted. You can then use that to determine pulses.
You'd also need a reference signal -- a magnetic pickup on the harmonic dampener should do that.
Do note that if you're thinking about a tach, its far easier to just use the tach sender we already have, and divide by 53 to get revolutions.
I know I can use a Ferret Piezo clamp on an injector line, but if the factory adaptor will work, that's even better.
I know some of you are thinking, why add a computer to the IDI?? That's the beauty of Mech. injection... My answer to that, is if you could have a bolt on computer, a 3d timing map that was failsafe (Meaning you could run without it powered on, or remove it completely with no side effects) that optimized areas where specific timing was needed. Could optimize for fuel mileage, Turbo spool on the low end, and timing advance on the high end all in one shot, and it would be tunable for the tinkerer's... And im talking full bolt on, run a power wire type stuff.
Ive just been thinking about how nice it would be to pull timing back to 4*BTDC for spooling a turbo like my 366, but also being able to run 18*BTDC full on, and anywhere in-between on a 3D map of Demand/Boost and RPM... I was thinking about it the other day, and a conversation with HBN got my wheels turning, and they haven't stopped since.
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How are you going to physically adjust the timing, though? There's a little bit of adjustment with the light-load-advance-lever, but nothing other than that, really.
Have you seen the DB4 pumps? Looks like they've got some control over the timing with the light-load advance servo, and that'd be a promising place to look.
Edit:
On the other hand, it might be a good idea to just go with a 7.3 PSD. Full computer control, still robust as hell, and you've got everything you need built in.
Have you seen the DB4 pumps? Looks like they've got some control over the timing with the light-load advance servo, and that'd be a promising place to look.
Edit:
On the other hand, it might be a good idea to just go with a 7.3 PSD. Full computer control, still robust as hell, and you've got everything you need built in.
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Postmaster
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From: Maple Valley, WA
How are you going to physically adjust the timing, though? There's a little bit of adjustment with the light-load-advance-lever, but nothing other than that, really.
Have you seen the DB4 pumps? Looks like they've got some control over the timing with the light-load advance servo, and that'd be a promising place to look.
Edit:
On the other hand, it might be a good idea to just go with a 7.3 PSD. Full computer control, still robust as hell, and you've got everything you need built in.
Have you seen the DB4 pumps? Looks like they've got some control over the timing with the light-load advance servo, and that'd be a promising place to look.
Edit:
On the other hand, it might be a good idea to just go with a 7.3 PSD. Full computer control, still robust as hell, and you've got everything you need built in.
The DB4 stuff is a waste of time, Ive already looked into it. The problem with this pump (which is still better than a P-pump as far as timing is concerned) is that it is just a 2D timing curve, and demand/load (Throttle position) doesn't influence the power curve of the engine like it could.
As far as the PSD goes, no, I don't do PSD's.... Number one, there are some big drawbacks to Heui, number two, why do something that has been done a million times..... Any joker can "tune" a 7.3 PSD... I like the IDI because it is a clean pallet, and figuring out these problems is fun for me. It would be a nice little achievement to do electronic timing on something that never was conceived to have anything of the such done with it, especially if its as easy as I think it could be.
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From: western washington
will need a amplifier setup to pick up 28Khz signal, and maybe an arduino (mini computer) to do your mapping...could work...use air or oil pneumatics to reposition the pump, the hard line's won't like this torqing, maybe new pump internals ??? building a new adjustable timing, gear way hard...
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They did it a long time ago on the old Detroit's diesel. We have them on our 92 series at work. Worked greatjust like modern efi mapping for today's gas engines. It uses a map, (3d), and throttle position to determine how much fuel to use and when i.e. timing. It's called a DDEC system and uses engine parameter like boost rpm and load to fire is now electronic injectors. My opinion true first common rail about 20-30 years ago.
Very very expensive headache
Very very expensive headache
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Also DDEC changes timing and injection events at the injector because it's easier than trying to adjust the pump with gears or lines, which really doesn't give you that much customize injection events. Basically adjusting the timing at one source the pump vs the 8 injectors.
P pump still got my vote
P pump still got my vote
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Postmaster
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From: Maple Valley, WA
Ill see if I can borrow my dad's Fluke and see if I notice anything.
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From: Over There
The timing meter electronics are beyond my knowledge at this point but I did have an idea on this.
Why not use a boost referenced fuel pressure regulator to control the bleed off of housing pressure in reference to boost? You're already doing it for fuel inlet pressure, just do the opposite side.
Simple enough in theory, we IDI guys like that, but a few issues. I have no idea if housing pressure ever gets or needs to get too high to handle in this way. It would be trial and error but could in theory be adjusted while driving by turning a **** on the fuel pressure regulator. And the direction of change may not be what you always want. That is because less housing pressure equates to more advance and more boost would equate to more housing pressure so more boost equates to less advance. This strikes me as good as from my understanding of diesel timing factors that's exactly what is needed for efficiency and power but that doesn't help you retard it for spooling.
Simple enough in theory, we IDI guys like that, but a few issues. I have no idea if housing pressure ever gets or needs to get too high to handle in this way. It would be trial and error but could in theory be adjusted while driving by turning a **** on the fuel pressure regulator. And the direction of change may not be what you always want. That is because less housing pressure equates to more advance and more boost would equate to more housing pressure so more boost equates to less advance. This strikes me as good as from my understanding of diesel timing factors that's exactly what is needed for efficiency and power but that doesn't help you retard it for spooling.