On a list of parts that can be ordered, whether directly from a Ford dealer, or from ATSG, I would expect to see the "Z" in the fourth place of the prefix. In fact, that is the only digit I would expect to see. Ford Parts does not sell or fulfill engineering numbers over the counter, back or front. But seeing the Z embedded or stamped an original production stamping or casting, simply surprises me.

I've ordered untold thousands of dollars in Ford parts since 1977, and have found that the fourth digit engineering division part is usually changed to a "Z" when the part is ordered through Parts. I can't think of a single part that I have ordered where this has not been the case, other than when the part has changed to a Motorcraft number, which has a different numerology.

For me, this is a discussion forum. The goal is about learning and discovery, not about who is right or wrong. When something is brought up that I don't understand, nothing will be learned by keeping silent about it. Discovery occurs when comparing personal experience to the credible statements of others, and the forum provides a positive platform where that can happen.

Cleatus12r, not sure where your negative "vendetta" vibe comes from? But it is a shame to put a rain cloud over and derail this otherwise clarifying discussion on torque converters, and I hope you choose to steer back to the positive crown of the road going forward.

As owners of 4R100s, dealing with the issue of matching torque converter to pump, TCC orifice, solenoid, and on/off vs PWM method, is more than likely to happen at some point during our tenure of ownership, so a better understanding of the issues brought up in this thread may be of benefit to current and future readers.

I hope we can continue to go about asking questions and challenging reports in a positive manner, because it is not a personal matter, and there is no need to try and turn it into one. "Positive" does not mean agreeing with or accepting as gospel everything anyone says. Positive does mean participating with topical comment, and backing it up.

 

I have no experience with Transtar but I don't understand why you would be dead set again a billet cover / 3 disc TC other than money. Grant it I wouldn't put a $950 PI or $1100 RevMax in a used tranny. But you can get a entry level billet cover/ 3 disc for about $400 which should good for about 350hp/ 400hp. A stock reman can barely handle stock hp.

WIT trans they can hook you up with a billet/ 3 disc TC for around $350 if you need a phone # I'll hook you up with my parts girl she'll take care of you with special pricing. They don't show the tc on website but they do have them. Mind you they have warehouses all over the country. https://www.wittrans.com/Schematic.a...ion=E4OD/4R100

Here is another one with billet / single disc $350 or a billet/ 3 disc for $435 and I have heard good things about Road Runner Ford Torque Converters Phoenix by Roadrunner Converters Arizona 602-437-2301






Now as far as pump part# goes that is what is cast in the pump housing. Also when it comes to fuild circuits they are alittle different between castings. Also the Non PWM TCC is only .530 wide and the PWM TCC is .600 wide. So the bore in the pump cover for the PWM (#CA casting) is about .070 larger than the Non PWM (#BA or#AA casting)

Now as far as matching things up in the trans personally it isn't an issue if you pull the trans out of the truck and keep all the parts for that trans together. It is when you try to build a custom trans it gets tricky. Honestly it doesn't matter if it is a PWM or a NON PWM TCC as far as the TC goes. The TC doesn't really care how you make it lock up it just does what it told. Lock and Unlock Now if you are building a trick custom trans with a custom TC then the little things matter. I'm sorry if I am doing a poor job of explaining it. I have a good working knowledge of the 4R100 and can build one that won't come apart but I can't explain things to save my butt. Mind you I am no expert. So I hope this helps.

I wouldn't know what I know if I hadn't asked questions and read everything I could get my hands on as far as the 4R100 goes. One of the best things to do is start with a ATSG manual and keep reading and asking questions.

 

This was well illustrated in the very recent and concurrent BTS TC (Stallion) install thread, where Brian sent the OP of that thread a part that Brian said MUST be installed when installing the Stallion TC, only Brian didn't explain exactly where to install it, so the OP turned to the forums to ask. No one here could answer in time, so the OP had to wait until Monday when BTS opened up shop again.

Turns out that part, an orifice restrictor installed on the TCC fluid circuit of the pump, and the very need for that part with the new purple torque converter, appears to have every bit to do with the "little things that matter", and this discussion overall.

It was that other thread that got me so interested in this thread, because I've been thinking about doing a converter only update for a while, and need to understand these little things that matter so I don't go thinking I've improved prospects of reliability with a new converter, only to have made it worse by not considering the details in the pump.

Thank you BadDogKuzz, for your post answering about the part numbers you saw stamped into the pumps you've handled. Speaking of handling, I also appreciate the positive and humble way you handled sharing your point of view. Reps to you!

 

I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed but I try to be helpful. Now that part # is not stamped it is cast into it.

Now as far as that other thread where BTS sent him the orifice restrictor that had me scratching my head. Because that too was a E99. And when I did my pump I didn't have that orifice. And you were right there was no answer so I went to the ATSG and started to look around and I found that ONLY a Non PWM pump (AA & AB) has that orifice. The PWM pump (AC) that orifice is omitted. It is not even there in the the (AC) pump body and that is per what I seen in mine and ATSG pages 36 & 37. But if you do the Transgo Tugger pump mods I think they tell you to drill that out or something. I don't know because I went with the Sonnax pump mods and you don't have to drill holes in the pump body. Now Roland knows alot about the Tugger mods and has done them and they work well for him. Where the Sonnax pump mods were simple drop in machined parts and I am very happy with my results too. So with that other thread that guy either had a Non PWM pump or a Tugger modded PWM pump and that is why he had the orifice. What it does I still have no clue, converter release orifice???

Also I forgot that other guy could have had a PWM (CA) pump with a custom machined ON/OFF TCC installed. They make a TCC that is like a NON PWM for the PWM pump that is .600 Sorry almost forgot that. Ooppss

Now if you are thinking of doing a TC and some pump mods I hope you start your own thread. Because at that point you also need to decide do you want to go with the Transgo Tugger pump mods or Sonnax pump mods. So start reading up on the 2 and then ask some more questions.

 

As I remember it the early '99 transmission builds ended in either May or June, 1998. An Aug 14 1998 build would NOT be an early '99 transmission.

 

Mark the cut off date for the E99 was 12/7/98 and for the chassic 3/15/99. Also my truck door sticker has the build date of 8/98 and that was one of the other clues that lead me to believe it all E99.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...late-99-a.html

 

Mark said "transmission builds"... not truck, engine, or chassis builds.

Also, I think there might be a difference between:

A. Early 99, built between January 1998 and June 1998

B. 1999, built between July 1998 and December 1998 and/or March 1999

C. 1999.5, built between March 1999 and June 1999

If you asked me back in 2000, I could tell you the difference down to the day. But 13 years later, it's all a blur. But I seem to remember there was a difference between those very early 1999 models that were built/sold in lieu of a true 1998 model year. Then when Job 1 for the true 1999 model year rolled around, some changes were made. Then in the middle of the 1999 model year, some more changes were made.

A lot of people, myself included, lump Early 99 with 1999 together, as a way to distinguish from 1999.5, but now that this point has been brought up, it has triggered a faint recollection of at least some slight differences between the early 99 versus the 1999, even before the 99.5. On the subject of chassis updates, one thing I especially remember was the spring block changes for the F-350s being part of the 1999.5 chassis update. And of course, Ford and International published that brochure that detailed the 99.5 engine updates, some of which were introduced earlier than 99.5.

So, I'm glad this detail was brought up again, so it can be clarified, because it would make a difference. As the years roll by, the dilution of mid model year distinctions seems like a normal memory fade. It will be interesting to get this sorted out once again.

 

I'm not dead set against a billet converter if I can get one for a reasonable price. All the billet converters I'd seen were in the $900-1200 range. I can't justify that kind of money for a stock application. If I can get a billet converter for a little more than a stamped converter, I may go that route. I'll look into WIT and the other company and see what they have to offer.

 

Wow... I am more confused than when I started....Early 99, 1999, 1999.5
So now I guess I should say I have a E99 truck with a 1999 4R100.

 

cleatus12r,

I have the mule kicking seatback TC engagement with a newly rebuilt 4R100. I don't know if the builder installed the on/off TCC valve with the Transgo HD kit. With the stock tune it is smooth. I have tried 3 different tuners and all have harsh jerking TC lock at normal accel. Heavy into the go pedal is not bad. Bill at PHP is writing up some custom tunes for me and I requested the PWM to be changed back to stock (whatever that is?).

Your description above sounds like my issue although still trying to wrap my head around it. I guess it depends on what my Tranny Tech installed.

 

I finally got around to pulling the converter off today, and naturally the last two characters are neither BA nor CA. They're AA. The whole number is

RF-F81 (then appears to be either an F or 1) -7A105-AA.

There's also an L-63 above it, but I'm not sure that's significant.

The only number I can find on the TC is engraved, and it's JJ 4058 2.

 

Well with a AA it should actually be a F81Z-7A103-AA per the ATSG manual so I am a little confused with # 7A105-AA ?? So double check that 105-A and make sure it is not a 103-AA. Also please check the tag on the side of the trans and check the build date that would be on the right side of the tag and the 4th set of #'s down from the top it will look like BD-9C17.

 

Heres a pic of all the numbers on the front. I won't be able to get under the truck for a day or two. I'll take that long to shovel it out!

 

I just googled the part number, and there's a listing on fleabay with part number RF-F81P-7A105-AA saying it's a front pump for a 1989-1999 E4OD. The digit I thought was a 1 or F could certainly be a P. There was a Ford sticker on the pan (not sure if it's still there or not) that said it was a 4R100. I wonder if it's possible they used leftover front pumps with E4OD part numbers in the initial run of 4R100s. I suppose it's also possible the person selling it isn't really sure what it goes to. I'll get to the bottom this if it kills me to death.

 

That is why I was wondering what the build date is ? The plate I am talking about is driver side above the pan and behind the shift leakage if I recall correctly.