understanding PID'S
#1
understanding PID'S
OK I got a new scan tool. and the manual sucks. Im sure its ok for those of you that work on this stuff daily, where can i find out more information
The scan tool monitors alot of stuff but I want to talk about the following one:
Spark IGN Monitorsffice Office<O
</O![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
MIS—Malfunction Indicator Lamp status<O
</O![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
FUEL— Fuel System Monitoring<O
</O![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
CCM—Comprehensive Component Monitoring<O
</O![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
CAT—Catalyst Monitoring<O
</O![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
HCAT—Heated Catalyst Monitoring<O
</O![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
EVAP-- Evaporation system Monitoring<O
</O![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
AIR—Secondary AIR System Monitoring<O
</O![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
O2S—Oxygen Sensor Monitoring<O
</O![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
HTR-- Oxygen Sensor Heater Monitoring<O
</O![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
EGR—EGR System Monitoring
now I would like to know what is monitored under each one of those, in other words what makes up each one of those monitored systems. and where do I find the spec's for each of these systems for my engine. dont I need to know them in order to determine if a monitored system is out of whack?
The scan tool monitors alot of stuff but I want to talk about the following one:
Spark IGN Monitorsffice Office<O
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
MIS—Malfunction Indicator Lamp status<O
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
FUEL— Fuel System Monitoring<O
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
CCM—Comprehensive Component Monitoring<O
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
CAT—Catalyst Monitoring<O
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
HCAT—Heated Catalyst Monitoring<O
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
EVAP-- Evaporation system Monitoring<O
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
AIR—Secondary AIR System Monitoring<O
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
O2S—Oxygen Sensor Monitoring<O
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
HTR-- Oxygen Sensor Heater Monitoring<O
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
EGR—EGR System Monitoring
now I would like to know what is monitored under each one of those, in other words what makes up each one of those monitored systems. and where do I find the spec's for each of these systems for my engine. dont I need to know them in order to determine if a monitored system is out of whack?
#2
In depth discussion is to much to type on a board like this.
Use of a scanner depends on having some background in computer control and the use of logic.
A short attempt to put some sense to your question:
1. MIS or CEL is either the lamp is on or off or scanner indicates a fault or not..
2. Fuel monitoring is all by program functions and are indicated by codes when faults are detected as well as live data viewing for which you would need to recognize when an operation is out of limits.
3. CCM is the name given for computer monitoring of analogue inputs from air, coolant, cylinder head temps, mass air; all for connectivity shorts, opens and out of limit values. These are all analogue to digital conversions the computer program monitors.
4/5 Are under the same heading of catalytic converter operation for temperature and health by program and sensor response to tests of sensor outputs and testing sequence the program does on a mostly continuous basis. Some tests are done once a drive cycle
5. EVAP system is fuel system and tank sealing monitoring for out of limits . It is a very involved set of tests that takes some time and needs specific conditions met for all the tests to complete.
6/7. Ox sensors are monitored for their operation besides their 'use' in detecting and reporting other faults, so they are very important.
The difference in a sensor fault, and it detecting some other fault, is in the codes and their descriptions that are displayed.
For example a 135 code is an sensor circuit malfunction but a 174 is a detection by that sensor of some 'other' malfunction.
This is where code interpretation come in and is most often misunderstood.
7. EGR is a sub system that is monitored for fault by system testing on a 'mostly' non continuous. That means for example, that some testing is done at start up and on a per drive cycle basis.
EGR is strictly an emissions subsystem to lower nitrogen oxide exhaust emissions as set forth in federal law. The testing has very tight limits so is a most often failure when P04XX codes are set.
.
All these descriptions are an indepth subject in themselves.
To get a well versed education on most all of them, download Ford's overview on OBDII for the year your interested in.
It's over 100 pages and still needs some back ground in basic and logic to understand and is Ford specific for most operations..
There you will find most of the testing limits.
.
Sorry it's not easier but this is why we are here to try helping those who do not have the knowledge by trying to short cut the repair process and by what is 'not' said unless we have to explain it deeper and make decisions on what to say for each reply.
Hopefully leading to a conclusion on the situation and repair.
Hope it helps but could confuse you more or even cause abandonment of the effort.
This is why Techs go to school.
Good luck.
Use of a scanner depends on having some background in computer control and the use of logic.
A short attempt to put some sense to your question:
1. MIS or CEL is either the lamp is on or off or scanner indicates a fault or not..
2. Fuel monitoring is all by program functions and are indicated by codes when faults are detected as well as live data viewing for which you would need to recognize when an operation is out of limits.
3. CCM is the name given for computer monitoring of analogue inputs from air, coolant, cylinder head temps, mass air; all for connectivity shorts, opens and out of limit values. These are all analogue to digital conversions the computer program monitors.
4/5 Are under the same heading of catalytic converter operation for temperature and health by program and sensor response to tests of sensor outputs and testing sequence the program does on a mostly continuous basis. Some tests are done once a drive cycle
5. EVAP system is fuel system and tank sealing monitoring for out of limits . It is a very involved set of tests that takes some time and needs specific conditions met for all the tests to complete.
6/7. Ox sensors are monitored for their operation besides their 'use' in detecting and reporting other faults, so they are very important.
The difference in a sensor fault, and it detecting some other fault, is in the codes and their descriptions that are displayed.
For example a 135 code is an sensor circuit malfunction but a 174 is a detection by that sensor of some 'other' malfunction.
This is where code interpretation come in and is most often misunderstood.
7. EGR is a sub system that is monitored for fault by system testing on a 'mostly' non continuous. That means for example, that some testing is done at start up and on a per drive cycle basis.
EGR is strictly an emissions subsystem to lower nitrogen oxide exhaust emissions as set forth in federal law. The testing has very tight limits so is a most often failure when P04XX codes are set.
.
All these descriptions are an indepth subject in themselves.
To get a well versed education on most all of them, download Ford's overview on OBDII for the year your interested in.
It's over 100 pages and still needs some back ground in basic and logic to understand and is Ford specific for most operations..
There you will find most of the testing limits.
.
Sorry it's not easier but this is why we are here to try helping those who do not have the knowledge by trying to short cut the repair process and by what is 'not' said unless we have to explain it deeper and make decisions on what to say for each reply.
Hopefully leading to a conclusion on the situation and repair.
Hope it helps but could confuse you more or even cause abandonment of the effort.
This is why Techs go to school.
Good luck.
#3
Your best bet is to download a Ford OBDII manual for your (or all) vehicle.
https://www.motorcraftservice.com/vd...&menuIndex1=10
You will find in an indispensable asset in understanding what the scan tool is showing you.
https://www.motorcraftservice.com/vd...&menuIndex1=10
You will find in an indispensable asset in understanding what the scan tool is showing you.
#5
BlueGrass!! you're right. This is a thread that i could see going on for a while. . I have good grip on the data in black. its the red ones that im not sure about. so I want to ask about them one at a time. my tool provides the following Live data
Number of DTCs stored in this ECU
Fuel system 1 status
Fuel System 2 status
Calculated LOAD Value(%)
Engine Coolant Temperature(¡£C)
Short Term Fuel Trim -Bank 1(%)
Short Term Fuel Trim -Bank 3(%)
Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 1(%)
Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 3(%)
Short Term Fuel Trim -Bank 2(%)
Short Term Fuel Trim -Bank 4(%)
Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 2(%)
Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 4(%)
Intake Manifold Absolute Pressure(kPa)
Engine RPM(rpm)
Vehicle Speed Sensor(km/h)
Ignition Timing Advanece for #1 Cylinder(¡£)
Intake Air Temperature(¡£C)
Absolute Throttle Position(%)
Location of Oxygen SensorsB1S12--B2S12<O
</O![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
Oxygen Sensor Output Voltage Bank 1-Sensor 1(V)
Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 1-Sensor 1(%)
Oxygen Sensor Output Voltage Bank 1-Sensor 2(V)
Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 1-Sensor 2(%)
Oxygen Sensor Output Voltage Bank 2-Sensor 1(V)
Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 2-Sensor 1(%)
Oxygen Sensor Output Voltage Bank 2-Sensor 2(V)
Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 2-Sensor 2(%)
OBD requirements to which vehicle is designed
Distance Travelled While MIL is Activated(Km)
OK Here we go. the easy ones first
Fuel System 2 status. I am pretty sure that this is for a secondary fuel system. Most vehicles only have one. am I corret? I am considering removing this from my data set.
Short Term Fuel Trim -Bank 3(%).
Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 3(%)
Short Term Fuel Trim -Bank 4(%)
Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 4(%)
standard 4, 6, 8 cylinder engines have 1-2 banks. I have never seen an engine with 3 or 4 banks. I am considering removing this from my data set. your thoughts?
Location of Oxygen Sensors B1S12--B2S12
this I believe is telling me that I have four O2 sensors![Huh?](images/smilies2/confused.gif)
. two located on Bank 1 and two located on Bank 2 (B1=BANK 1, S12=SENSORS 1 & 2). I am pretty sure that I have only see 1-2 O2 sensors and they have always been located on the up and down stream sides of the CAT. So what am I not undestanding here.
Number of DTCs stored in this ECU
Fuel system 1 status
Fuel System 2 status
Calculated LOAD Value(%)
Engine Coolant Temperature(¡£C)
Short Term Fuel Trim -Bank 1(%)
Short Term Fuel Trim -Bank 3(%)
Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 1(%)
Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 3(%)
Short Term Fuel Trim -Bank 2(%)
Short Term Fuel Trim -Bank 4(%)
Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 2(%)
Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 4(%)
Intake Manifold Absolute Pressure(kPa)
Engine RPM(rpm)
Vehicle Speed Sensor(km/h)
Ignition Timing Advanece for #1 Cylinder(¡£)
Intake Air Temperature(¡£C)
Absolute Throttle Position(%)
Location of Oxygen SensorsB1S12--B2S12<O
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
![Stick Out Tongue](images/smilies/tongue.gif)
Oxygen Sensor Output Voltage Bank 1-Sensor 1(V)
Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 1-Sensor 1(%)
Oxygen Sensor Output Voltage Bank 1-Sensor 2(V)
Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 1-Sensor 2(%)
Oxygen Sensor Output Voltage Bank 2-Sensor 1(V)
Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 2-Sensor 1(%)
Oxygen Sensor Output Voltage Bank 2-Sensor 2(V)
Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 2-Sensor 2(%)
OBD requirements to which vehicle is designed
Distance Travelled While MIL is Activated(Km)
OK Here we go. the easy ones first
Fuel System 2 status. I am pretty sure that this is for a secondary fuel system. Most vehicles only have one. am I corret? I am considering removing this from my data set.
Short Term Fuel Trim -Bank 3(%).
Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 3(%)
Short Term Fuel Trim -Bank 4(%)
Long Term Fuel Trim - Bank 4(%)
standard 4, 6, 8 cylinder engines have 1-2 banks. I have never seen an engine with 3 or 4 banks. I am considering removing this from my data set. your thoughts?
Location of Oxygen Sensors B1S12--B2S12
this I believe is telling me that I have four O2 sensors
![Huh?](images/smilies2/confused.gif)
![Huh?](images/smilies2/confused.gif)
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