Hello and Help,
During the last year and a half I've burned out 4 selenoids and one starter.
Yesterday I burned out 2 selenoids. The starter motor keeps turning either after the truck has started and or after the ign switch is off. The ign switch does turn off because the other circuts (ie. lights, rado etc. stop. I've done a search on this section of the Message Board and have noticed that this seems to happen to more than me. One problem can be the selenoid, but after burning the first one out, I replaced it with a new "extra heavy duty" $18.00 unit rather than the regular heavy duty $11.00 unit. That one stayed engaged after just the 3rd starting of the truck.

Another problem mentioned is the ignition switch actuating arm. This can either get broken or, as the Ford service man mentioned, get dirt in it and stick. So... I took the little red wire (starter switch wire) off the selenoid and put a continuity test light onto it. I cycled the switch for at least 20 cycles and every time current went on and off successfully when I turned the switch on and off. It is possible that whatever dirt was in this actuator rod or arm has been dislodged while driving and it will now be ok for a while. [I took the starter motor cable off the selenoid and bump started the truck to do my work]

The Ford Garage and another garageman mentioned that a worn flywheel ring gear could pull the starter gear into it and stay locked together after the truck started. But I don't see any type of feedback wire coming from the starter back to the ignition system telling the engine to stay running as long as the starter motor is turning. Plus, I can seem to shut off the motor of the truck, but if I try to stall the starter motor with the clutch and brake, it doesn't work. That's I think how I burned out the first starter motor and melted some wires... I think the Ford garage is eplaining what can happen if the starter gear and the engine stay physically engaged, like when the starter bendix spring breaks.

My quesitons are a couple....

(1) Those of you who have had this problem, was it successfully remedied by cleaning or repairing this actuator arm? .... or a new selenoid...? or...a new switch?.. or did it need a new truck

(2) Is there any such possibility that the starter motor is drawing way to much current and somehow immediately (or almost immediately) "welding" the contacts together in the selenoid?.. The truck seems to start relatively easily and the starter motor turns for a half a minute easily. (it took at least that long to get it disconnected) Could a starter wire rubbed through and grounding on the frame or header's cause this? Or would that not allow current to go to the starter?

(3) One other question about the '87's. The wiring diagram for the '84-'86 truck shows only the starter cable wire coming off the starter selenoid. The '87-'89 diagram shows the clutch interlock switch also coming off the starter cable side of the selenoid. It looks like the interlock switch grounds out the starter motor if the clutch isn't deployed. My truck must be in the '86 category because when I was testing continuity on the starter switch wire, the continuity light went off when I pushed in the clutch. However, I've been driving with a second wire (a group of 2 wires) attatched to the starter side pole of the selenoid. ???? Did someone (Me?) make a mistake sometime that they changed the starter selenoid? Should there be any smaller wires coming from the starter motor side of the selenoid? I've heard that '87 was a in between year and so I wonder if there is a reason for the wires to be on the starter cable side of the selenoid or if they should be on the battery side. I don't think this is causing the starter motor to stay engaged as I've driven the truck for at least a year like this. But it might cause other minor ills that I'm not aware of.

(4) The haynes manual doesn't go into alot of detail about removing the collars on the steering colum or especially any detail about removing or servicing this 'actuator arm' Would anyone happen to have some pictures or some encouragement if this appears to be the solution? Do I need a steering wheel puller?

My truck is the carb version of the '87 (pre injection)
Any help appreciated.

Tony G

 

Ok I am going to try to make this simple. There should be no wires hooked to the starter side of solenoid. If you have smaller wires hooked to that side that might be where your problem is coming from.
I have had problems over the years with starter solenoids sticking on my trucks but usually after replacing once it was good for several years.
If you starter had a high amp draw you would have a hard time starting the truck and would draw the battery down in a big hurry.

When you have a Ford you never need a new truck.

To sum it up I recommend that you move the smaller wires to the Battery side of the solenoid and if the truck starts and runs fine you have most likely solved your problems.


Good Luck

 

Thanks a bunch for the well wishes and the comments. It would be both encouraging and puzzling if the only problem turns out to be that I had a wire on the starter side of the solenoid. Encouraging because the remedy was that simple and puzzling because I've run with it that way for quite some (6 months to a year) I've looked hard at the wiring diagram and had decided the same thing that you have told me concerning the auxillary wires. Tonight, with a new solenoid in truck, I went through the continuity tests again. I cycled the starter switch a few times and although I noticed a seeming slow return to "run", the continuity light goes out immediately when I release the key from the start position. So I hooked up the starter motor cable to the solenoid and crossed my fingers. After starting, the continuity light also promptly goes out and stays out. It's too early to say that the problem is solved, but at least I can go for a soda tonight. One other difference that was suggested was to use a 'verticle' solenoid rather than the horizontal one. An auto parts guy and my Dad both made this suggestion. I'm referring to the orientation of the body of the solenoid tube as vertical or horizontal. Both are applicable for '80-'96 trucks so the only difference is new mounting holes. I think that to be on the safe side, I'll sometime remove the steering column covers and do some investigating and maybe some lubricating. I'll keep ya posted on how it acts in the next few days.
Thanks again for the help.
Tony

 

i used to sell auto parts for a living and i can safely say that 50% of all ford solenoids i sold, no matter what brand or price range or quality,they ended up defective in that way. it got so bad that i really hated to sell one..period...'cause i knew i'd be giving the person a new starter to replace the one that the solenoid fried due to remaining energized. it was horrible for a while...got better for a while...then returned back to the same frequency of failures. talk about some pissed off customers. some brands actually put out recall notices on the flat style solenoids.
phil

 

Tony I have just run into the same problem 87 E-150 I am in the prosses of tracking the problem down and will let you know the results. by the way you have'nt had any problems with the turn signal/backup light fuse have you?
Rob

 

I have had both styles in my truck and they both bolt right up. The newer flat or horizontal ones don't seem to last as long and after market ones seem to last less time than factory ones.
The way a solenoid works is that a small amount of current goes through your key switch to the small pole of the solenoid and energizes an electromagnet inside. This magnet pulls down a peice of metal that closes the circuit between the two large poles ( battery and starter). When you release the key, the current to the magnet is shut off and a spring pushes the peice of metal back into its resting place breaking the circuit between the battery and starter.
If you ever jumped across the posts of a solenoid with a screw driver, you've seen all the sparks it makes. That happens inside the solenoid every time you turn the key. A weak magnet making a weak connection between the battery and starter posts causes more sparks and dirt from this causes it to stick. A weak spring can cause it not to release too. These failures keep the starter going with no power coming from the key switch or any other source but the battery itself.
With the key in the off position, the power to the ignition is off and the engine will not run. If the starter gear is sticking for what ever reason, it may stay engaged and turn with the engine if the engine is running, but not if it is not running, and would have no power to the starter ( the engine wuold be turning the starter, not the starter turning the engine). If the ignition is off and the starter is energized and still cranking the engine, the problem is definitely electrical a d most likely the solenoid. If the problem is electrical and there is no power at the small post of the solenoid, the solenoid is definitely the problem.
Also, a good rap on the solenoid usually unsticks it and it might get you by long enough to drive to the parts store to replace it.

Ziggy

 

>i used to sell auto parts for a living and i can safely say
>that 50% of all ford solenoids i sold, no matter what brand
>or price range or quality,they ended up defective in that
>way. it got so bad that i really hated to sell
>one..period...'cause i knew i'd be giving the person a new
>starter to replace the one that the solenoid fried due to
>remaining energized. it was horrible for a while...got
>better for a while...then returned back to the same
>frequency of failures. talk about some pissed off customers.
>some brands actually put out recall notices on the flat
>style solenoids.
>phil

Yup, generic parts store solenoids suck. The solution is to buy genuine Ford solenoids from the dealer, about $28.