Thinking about a turbo mod

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Dec 10, 2013 | 10:40 AM

#16

Hdslider

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From: Roll Tide, Roll

I have one ? It states it will increase boost.and can see how but how is a stock pcm.no tuner gonna react when it actually sees a overboost.vs stock boost limit?

Dec 10, 2013 | 10:43 AM

#17

SavageNFS

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From: Wisconsin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hdslider

I have one ? It states it will increase boost.and can see how but how is a stock pcm.no tuner gonna react when it actually sees a overboost.vs stock boost limit?

I'm guessing CEL or more they will have tuner support soon.

Dec 10, 2013 | 10:52 AM

#18

Hdslider

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From: Roll Tide, Roll

They claim this on a stock truck. But I dont see that happening without a tuner.thanks Savage.

Dec 10, 2013 | 11:02 AM

#19

SavageNFS

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From: Wisconsin

I don't know how this will work on a completely stock truck without PCM modification. It states that "no modifications needed". That could mean it is a drop-in to the stock turbo with no modifications to the turbo. I bet it requires PCM computer manipulation though.

I just sent them an email asking...enough wondering. I'll post up what they say.

Dec 10, 2013 | 11:16 AM

#20

Hdslider

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From: Roll Tide, Roll

Dang you beat me 2 it. Bob has always been good on replies and in full length.

Dec 10, 2013 | 11:26 AM

#21

darren32

Lead Driver

Joined: Apr 2011

Posts: 7,302

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From: Edmonton Alberta

I am thinkin it would probably work bone stock. The PCM control the boost. Every turbo is a bit different and changes in air density need to be accounted for. There may not be a lot of benefit stock other than maybe making more boost at a lower turbo RPM but I think it would work....

Let us know what they say

System Operation
The turbocharger for the 6.7L engine is designed to provide boost control at low and high speeds for improved throttle response. The variable geometry turbocharger is electronically controlled and hydraulically actuated. When the vanes of the turbocharger are closed, the engine has a higher exhaust back pressure and creates more heat which warms the engine faster in cold ambient conditions.
When the turbocharger actuator is commanded to the full open position, also referred to as low or no duty cycle, oil from the oil supply line is directed to the open side of the actuator piston. Oil on the closed side of the piston is then directed through the actuator piston, back to the turbocharger actuator, and then to the engine. If the turbocharger actuator is disconnected the valve will default to the open position. Once the desired turbocharger vane position is obtained, the turbocharger actuator goes to a neutral position and both the open and closed sides of the actuator piston are blocked off. When the turbocharger actuator is commanded to the full closed position, also referred to as high duty cycle, oil from the oil supply line is directed through the actuator piston to the closed side of the piston. Oil on the open side of the piston is directed back to the turbocharger actuator and then to the engine.
During engine operation at low engine speeds and load, little energy is available from the exhaust to generate boost. To maximize the use of available energy, the vanes are closed allowing exhaust gas is accelerated between the vanes and across the turbine wheel. In general, this allows the turbocharger to behave as a smaller turbocharger than it actually is. Closing the vanes also increases the back pressure in the exhaust manifold which is used to drive the exhaust gas through the EGR cooler and valve into the intake manifold. This is also the position for cold ambient warm up.
The turbocharger assembly is an exhaust-driven centrifugal compressor. Its purpose is to increase power output by supplying compressed air to the engine. The turbocharger components are cooled with oil, coolant and air. Engine oil is circulated through the housings, which acts as a heat barrier between the hot turbine and the cold compressor. Sleeve-type bearings are lubricated by engine oil. Oil is pumped directly from the cylinder block, then circulated through the turbocharger housing and returned to the oil pan through the oil drain in the turbocharger. Coolant enters the turbocharger through the block and flows out of the turbocharger coolant outlet hose to help maintain a lower operation temperature.
The variable geometry turbocharger is electronically controlled by the turbocharger actuator, via the PCM through the Controller Area Network (CAN). The turbocharger actuator controls intake manifold pressure. The turbocharger uses a set of moveable vanes in the turbine housing to change the flow of the exhaust gases throughout the turbocharger. These vanes can be positioned to change the angle or direction and the velocity of flow to the turbine wheel, depending upon the conditions in which the engine is operating. As power demand increases, exhaust gas velocity increases in direct relation, as does intake manifold boost pressure. Conversely, as the flow of exhaust gas diminishes, intake manifold boost pressure also reduces at the same rate.
Vanes mounted around the internal circumference of the turbine housing are connected to a unison ring. The unison ring links all the vanes together and when the unison ring moves, all the vanes move. The unison ring is moved by the turbocharger actuator. Turbocharger control is a closed-loop system using the Exhaust Pressure (EP) sensor to provide feedback to the PCM. In response to engine speed, engine load, manifold pressure and barometric pressure, the PCM controls the turbocharger actuator position to match manifold boost to the requirements of the engine.
Expanding exhaust gases drive the turbine shaft assembly to speeds over 100,000 rpm. Filtered air entering the turbocharger compressor side of the turbocharger is compressed and delivered to a Charge Air Cooler (CAC). The very hot compressed air is cooled by the CAC , and then continues on to fill the intake manifold at a pressure higher than atmospheric pressure. Because considerably more air is forced into the intake manifold, the results are increased power, fuel efficiency and the ability to maintain power at higher altitudes

Dec 10, 2013 | 11:39 AM

#22

BigF350

FTE Leadership Emeritus

Joined: May 2004

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From: Melbourne, Aus

I am guessing the PCM just operates like a manual waste-gate, and dials out boost once it hits a certain limit.

I'd be interested to see if there are any PCM changes, or if the increase in hp/torque is just in an area where the current turbo doesn't make as much boost, and the power is retained because the altered turbo wheel either builds boost quicker or retains boost at a higher rpm

Dec 11, 2013 | 07:20 AM

#23

LA2005F250

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From: Aurora / Moores Hill, IN

Thanks for all the feedback. I hope the guy from DieselSite replys soon with some good info like everyone else. This could be a Christmas gift?

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Dec 11, 2013 | 09:40 AM

#24

VQ2Fast4U

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Joined: Mar 2006

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From: CT

Is it reasonable to think that this aftermarket wheel is able to increase air volume at a lower turbine speed without increasing pressure, thus no need to alter tuning?

Dec 11, 2013 | 10:03 AM

#25

BlackBeest

More Turbo

Joined: Sep 2013

Posts: 596

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From: Watson

Quote:

Originally Posted by VQ2Fast4U

Is it reasonable to think that this aftermarket wheel is able to increase air volume at a lower turbine speed without increasing pressure, thus no need to alter tuning?

That's exactly what I was thinking. That wheel would have to be more efficient in its flow characteristics so the air coming off it isn't as hot. It must be able to bump up the psi entering the motor a little without the PCM getting involved. I'd be interested to know if our factory boost gauge could even detect the increase, or would you need an actual gauge to see the claimed "boost increase"

Looking at the dyno results on their website, the 61hp it makes can be done with only 2-3 psi on a big V8, says the ole rule of thumb...

Dec 11, 2013 | 04:43 PM

#26

SavageNFS

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From: Wisconsin

So I heard back from John @ DieselSite...
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The wheel does not require a tuner or any reprogramming. The turbo is wastegated, so there is no increase in pressure, just in CFMs (which the computer has no measurement for). If you have any more questions let me know. Thanks,

John@DieselSite

So it's as simple as that. I guess I should over think stuff.
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Dec 11, 2013 | 05:47 PM

#27

720Deere

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From: Maryland

Everybody gets hung up on boost pressure, but as BlackBeest alluded to, a more efficient turbo will move more air at a lower pressure. This wheel is doing just that. The charge air is cooler which helps burn the fuel more completely which leads to more power. I don't know all the ins and outs of the 6.7 programming, but I'm going to assume that the more efficient turbo triggers several parameters in the programming which helps produce the additional power as well.

60+ HP is a pretty big gain, but you also have to remember that is at peak HP and the factory turbo has proven to be anemic in the upper rpm range. With a turbo that can keep up, I guess the computer isn't defueling as much.

Dec 11, 2013 | 06:18 PM

#28

99FORD EXPY.

Tuned

Joined: Oct 2005

Posts: 341

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From: Bloomsburg,PA

I'm in just need to spin off 50,000 miles first

Dec 11, 2013 | 11:08 PM

#29

WK15

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Joined: Jan 2012

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From: USA

Ok, so the big question is who is buying one? I have 10,000 miles on my engine right now.

Is it worth 419.00 dollars?

H&S states for the Mini Maxx:

POWER LEVELS
Stock HP
Tow: 40 HP
Street: 80 HP
Performance: 120 HP

So, with the added 60 hp and the 117 torq added just by the Wicked Wheel 2 on a stock engine. Are we just adding that 60 and 117 to the Power Levels stated or is there formula to find out the average here?

I'm game to get one. It won't be until spring time. It's a little cold (13 degrees) to be working on an engine outside right now.