Dad's Mirror, Mirror
Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,521
Likes: 16
From: Lost
The forward position appears to be quite close to where Ford mounted the "flag" style mirrors on the later models, like my 94 F150 had. Granted, they were closer to the door, and just barely rearward of the window post to allow opening the vent windows, but the veiwing angle was about the same.
it's a shame the lower mounts won't line up with the current holes. If they did, you could try them out to see if they have any quivering issues in that location. That would be my concern, other than the small amount of view that is blocked by the pass window channel.
it's a shame the lower mounts won't line up with the current holes. If they did, you could try them out to see if they have any quivering issues in that location. That would be my concern, other than the small amount of view that is blocked by the pass window channel.
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
I think I can fix the quivering - unless moving it forward puts it in very turbulent air. Perhaps that's what you mean.
My plan is to put a stiffener inside the door on both top and bottom mounts. The top mount has a factory stiffener in that looks like this:
As you can see, is just long enough to hold the nuts for the standard, 2-bolt, mirrors. I'll put another one on the far side to continue the aid, but it won't be tied into the one in the picture - unless someone has a good idea.
As for the bottom one, harken back to the discussion on another thread about how to stiffen the mounts. And then look again at the stiffener in the picture above. While not the "hat" section that was suggested, it does have the elements of the hat that provide the stiffening - the sides. Something like that is what I want to use on the lower mounts.
My plan is to put a stiffener inside the door on both top and bottom mounts. The top mount has a factory stiffener in that looks like this:
As you can see, is just long enough to hold the nuts for the standard, 2-bolt, mirrors. I'll put another one on the far side to continue the aid, but it won't be tied into the one in the picture - unless someone has a good idea.
As for the bottom one, harken back to the discussion on another thread about how to stiffen the mounts. And then look again at the stiffener in the picture above. While not the "hat" section that was suggested, it does have the elements of the hat that provide the stiffening - the sides. Something like that is what I want to use on the lower mounts.
Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,521
Likes: 16
From: Lost
Yes, I was referencing the possibility that they could be in more turbulent air being that far forward. Not sure if bracing the doors could overcome the turbulence, if present.
On the other hand, adding one of those 80's era bug deflectors will put *everything* into a turbulent zone. My truck had one of those on it when I bought it, and the mirrors shook like crazy at hiway speed. I put up with the mirror shake, due to very few bugs ever getting anywhere near the windshield. I kinda miss that bug shield, but I don't miss the -2 MPG hit it caused........ I took it off because it got broke, but was surprised by the added MPG from having it off.
On the other hand, adding one of those 80's era bug deflectors will put *everything* into a turbulent zone. My truck had one of those on it when I bought it, and the mirrors shook like crazy at hiway speed. I put up with the mirror shake, due to very few bugs ever getting anywhere near the windshield. I kinda miss that bug shield, but I don't miss the -2 MPG hit it caused........ I took it off because it got broke, but was surprised by the added MPG from having it off.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,504
Likes: 8
From: Indian Falls, New York
Yes, I was referencing the possibility that they could be in more turbulent air being that far forward. Not sure if bracing the doors could overcome the turbulence, if present.
On the other hand, adding one of those 80's era bug deflectors will put *everything* into a turbulent zone. My truck had one of those on it when I bought it, and the mirrors shook like crazy at hiway speed. I put up with the mirror shake, due to very few bugs ever getting anywhere near the windshield. I kinda miss that bug shield, but I don't miss the -2 MPG hit it caused........ I took it off because it got broke, but was surprised by the added MPG from having it off.
On the other hand, adding one of those 80's era bug deflectors will put *everything* into a turbulent zone. My truck had one of those on it when I bought it, and the mirrors shook like crazy at hiway speed. I put up with the mirror shake, due to very few bugs ever getting anywhere near the windshield. I kinda miss that bug shield, but I don't miss the -2 MPG hit it caused........ I took it off because it got broke, but was surprised by the added MPG from having it off.
Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,521
Likes: 16
From: Lost
Yeah, I loved it too, even though it was illegal in many states due to being red.... Only took it off because some a-hole bent one end out ~90* or so, causing both the lexan and aluminum frame to break......
Of course, I wasn't real thrilled about the mirrors shaking, and the inability to use the windshield washer at speeds over ~25 MPH. Rather spraying the windshield, it would spray the hood........
Of course, I wasn't real thrilled about the mirrors shaking, and the inability to use the windshield washer at speeds over ~25 MPH. Rather spraying the windshield, it would spray the hood........
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
Brad - Those are what I would call the standard mirrors for here in the early years of this series - before the mirrors were made rounder. And the mounts and recessed mount post are identical to Dad's. In fact, even after the mirrors changed the same mounts and post were used.
All - It is official, my paint and body man said it wouldn't be a problem to weld up the hole that will be left uncovered by the lower mount. In fact, I may ask him to do both holes to ensure water doesn't get in there. So, the decision has been made - I'm going with the mirrors in the forward location. Thanks for all the input!
All - It is official, my paint and body man said it wouldn't be a problem to weld up the hole that will be left uncovered by the lower mount. In fact, I may ask him to do both holes to ensure water doesn't get in there. So, the decision has been made - I'm going with the mirrors in the forward location. Thanks for all the input!
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Thread Starter
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
Thanks. It looks like the position I'm going for as as far as I dare because the inside edge is JUST blocked by the vent window from my seating position.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,477
Likes: 19
From: Sheffield, AL
Gary,
Just a random thought regarding placement of the mirrors. Sometimes, we get into the mindset that everything must be symetrical. I had a 1963 VW Beetle with the correct dealer installed passenger side rear view mirror in addition to the original driver side mirror. Both were mounted into the top of the upper "external" door hinge, but the mounting arms were shaped differently in order to place the passenger side mirror correctly for the best view without interferring with the vent window.
I believe modern Jeep Wranglers [previously CJ5 & CJ7] also have different mounting arms.
Since you are relocating and having the holes welded, place the mirrors where they will function the best for you.
Just a random thought regarding placement of the mirrors. Sometimes, we get into the mindset that everything must be symetrical. I had a 1963 VW Beetle with the correct dealer installed passenger side rear view mirror in addition to the original driver side mirror. Both were mounted into the top of the upper "external" door hinge, but the mounting arms were shaped differently in order to place the passenger side mirror correctly for the best view without interferring with the vent window.
I believe modern Jeep Wranglers [previously CJ5 & CJ7] also have different mounting arms.
Since you are relocating and having the holes welded, place the mirrors where they will function the best for you.
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
Interesting thought. The passenger's mirror is as far forward as I dare go. But, I could move the driver's mirror forward, although that may well move it into the slip stream and cause serious shaking. Anyway, thanks.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,477
Likes: 19
From: Sheffield, AL
I, in a previous [younger!!!] life, owned a 1963 Vette Coupe, all original. It was equipped from the factory with only the driver's side rear view mirror. Driving with the driver's side window down, there was minimal turbulence. Driving with the passenger side window down [with or without the driver's side open] introduced noticeable wind buffeting.
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
Many of the vehicles in that era had serious buffeting in many conditions. And our trucks aren't far removed from that era. The upright windshield and flat-sided mirrors caused a lot of that.
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FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
Got the doors drilled today for the mirrors in the forward position. And drilled out the nutserts for the standard mirror's bottom mount since one of those will be outside of the mount's boot and the other one will be under the boot. You can see the instructions to the body man to weld them up and smooth them out.
At the top of the picture you can easily see the three original holes as they are much larger than needed. Not sure why there's a middle hole as neither set of mirror use it an there's no nut set up for it like on the other two holes. Anyway, you can see the hole for the third bolt toward the right above.
And I cleaned up the inside of the door in the area of the new bolt holes. That took a lot of work to get off the old Peel & Seal as well as the original sound-deadening material off since it was really, really stuck But the area is now clean so that the adhesive I use for the stiffener will adhere. I'm thinking that the much larger 3-bolt mount and an internal stiffener should do wonders for the steadiness of the mirrors. I hope.
At the top of the picture you can easily see the three original holes as they are much larger than needed. Not sure why there's a middle hole as neither set of mirror use it an there's no nut set up for it like on the other two holes. Anyway, you can see the hole for the third bolt toward the right above.
And I cleaned up the inside of the door in the area of the new bolt holes. That took a lot of work to get off the old Peel & Seal as well as the original sound-deadening material off since it was really, really stuck But the area is now clean so that the adhesive I use for the stiffener will adhere. I'm thinking that the much larger 3-bolt mount and an internal stiffener should do wonders for the steadiness of the mirrors. I hope.