Did you know that according to the Bible it is permissable for a father to sleep with his daughters in order to sire children? Check out the story of Moab in the old testament.



whistler

 

Well, I probably ought to let you know I'm 18 and don't have any kids, but I do have three younger brothers. I went to public school through 6th grade, then switched to homeschooling and never looked back. Graduated from high school at 16, enrolled in a local computer school, and graduated from there a year later. My three younger brothers have been and will continue to be homeschooled, and they love it. Now, to answer your question: (Oh, and most of these answers apply to my brothers as well.)

Bewitched?

Nope

I Dream Of Genie?

I think I saw three episodes when I was about 10.

Or how about "Snow White and The Seven Dwarfs?"

Are you kidding? Being a guy, I wouldn't be caught dead watching that show

Cinderella?

See above.

The Wizard Of Oz?

Once, again when I was about 10 or 11.

Star Wars (any episode)?

Okay, okay, you've got me there. I was a big fan of it way back when, and have seen all of the episodes. I kind of grew out of it though, and we haven't watched any of them for a couple of years

Battlestar Galactica?

Negative.

The Twilight Zone.

Once again, only seen a few episodes, but they were the old originals, and weren't too wierd.

Star Trek?

No, but how much 'magic' was in Star Trek? I always thought it was about advanced technology, not witchcraft.

Scoobie Doo?

Nope, but again, no witchcraft there, it always ended up being smoke and mirrors.

The Flinstones (remember the wizard "Kazoo"?)?

No.

My Favorite Martian?

Nope.

Now, I will admit, we're a rather 'odd' family. No cable, we spend maybe 3 hours a week total watching TV (Mostly Jeopardy). It is my opinion, and that of the two brothers that can read, that curling up with a good book beats the boob tube any day. Our parents have "Trained us up in the way we should go", to paraphrase, and we're not about to turn from it.

Hope this wasn't too long, but you asked!

Rory

 

And where does it say it's okay??? According to Genesis 19:33, Lot's two daughters got him drunk so that he couldn't remember anything, and then slept with him. That doesn't make it right. In fact, it says in Chapter 2:24, "For this reason a man shall leave his mother and father, and shall cleave unto his wife, and the two shall become one" (Emphasis mine). God meant for a man to be married to one woman, and one woman only. Just because the Bible records a person (Who is fallible, remember) doing something, doesn't mean that something is right.

Rory

 

I'm 100% with Theologian on this one. While some may object to the "glorification" of witchcraft (if you can even call it that), the underlying message is a positive one...far better than they will find in many other forms of mainstream 'entertainment' that many Christians find perfectly acceptable. The message is, as Theo says, the triumph of good over evil - the message is not "witchcraft is good", especially considering that the villain(s) also practice it. If anything, one thing children could take away from this story is how power can corrupt - and how with any form of power must come the responsibilty to use it wisely. I think these are good messages, even if some find the format objectionable.

As far as trying to shelter children from perceived 'evil', I think it would be best to have children encounter this sort of thing when their parents are there to give them guidance and support - instead of sheltered from it until later in life when there is no guidance to be had and they have no experience upon which to base their decisions.

Back in my college days, there were a number of kids (okay, young adults) who had led very sheltered lives - and when they were exposed to the 'real world', they reacted in one of two ways. They either went overboard and engaged in any kind of sinful or illicit act you can imagine (sex, drugs, alcohol, criminal behavior), or they withdrew and became total social outcasts. The first group usually dropped out (or was kicked out) of college (if not something worse yet), and the second group lived a solitary (and fairly miserable) existence - often eventually also dropping out, and then going home and living with their parents until they were in their 30s. I know it sounds like I'm being a bit harsh, but this is what I've seen.

Sheltering children may be required in today's society - but I think it should only be done with moderation, and when children are exposed to things like this it should be when they are younger and have their parents to turn to for guidance. Think of it like childhood vaccinations and many childhood illnesses (like chicken pox) - you want children to be exposed to them when they are young, because if they're not exposed until later in life the reaction is usually far worse because they haven't built up any immunity.

LK

 

Well said LK!

Some of that second group sometimes went over the "deep end" and became "Moonies" etc also.

Exposure to many things during childhood is a good thing when done in moderation and with parental guidance and understanding.

 

What I was trying to get at with the Bible story is that we need to critically think about what we read. You are right, the bible doesn't explicitly say it is ok. That's the point I was trying to make. Without reading the Bible and understanding the whole context of what is being written we are apt to allow others to dupe us, or mislead us into thinking one way when we should be thinking something else.

The Bible reports on things we should and shouldn't do. Sometimes the message is not clear. We are left with 'What does it really mean?' In other words, use critical thinking. We shouldn't unquestioningly allow other poeple to explain everything to us whether it is printed in the Bible or anywhere else. Whether this person is a lay person or a man of the cloth--humans everywhere are falliable. I think we can agree on that.

And so, if somebody wants to believe that Harry Potter or any other book is evil, or immoral, or goes against God's word, that's great. We are perfectly within our rights, in the Western world, to make up our own minds about things. I just think people should take the time to learn about and understand just what they are critizing. In other words, read the book first, then decide if you believe it to be evil.

Of course, we are pefectly within our own rights to have somebody else make up our minds for us.



whistler

 

Then you have an opinion based on ignorance and hear-say.

"do you have to smoke a joint or a crack pipe to know that its bad for you? NO! its common sense that drugs are bad, "

No, I could just watch my aquaintainces and see how their lives were ruined with drugs, but what does that have to do with HP? It's a make-believe story. Allows kids to use their imagination and exercise their minds and 'ask what if?'.

"just as it is that God says in His word, the Bible that witchcraft in any form is wrong. BTW, in my life, and in the future, the life of my family, when i have one, God's Word, the Bible, WILL be the final authority in all matters of life."

Good for you. BTW, how is it that God created light on the first day but waited till day 4 to make the sun? Did he use a shop light?

Bottom line, HP is a fantasy story. It's popular with kids and adults. It is a classic story-line of good vs evil. It also shows the value of hard work and struggle (even though he can do magic, it's not the end all solution to his problems). There's a lot of the under-dog in Harry that we like to root for-- orphaned as a baby, living with relatives who hate him and still he grows up to be a decent kid. I have no problem what-so-ever with my kids reading it, have read all the books so far and have read the books to my kids. So, get a life. With all the real evil in this world -- terrorists, organized religions that call for the extermination of non-believers, etc. a little fantasy can be a good thing.

 

were u serious about that? Mine was only a joke, I think everykid needs at least a little fiction. Nancy Drew and The Hardy Boys? come on now... kids need something up to date. I think your over reacting about this. I gaurentee your daughter won't actually start practicing witchcraft.

 

> Jewish people didn't even have monotheism ...
> until after they met up with the Egryption sun-workshippers.

Untrue. "I am the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob." Jacob and his twelve sons had one God well before their family moved to Egypt. Noah who preceeded Abraham had one God.

> However, they bear no resemblance to what is done in Harry Potter.

They do. I use to have a business in Salem MA and lived in the area. All I can say about Laurie Cabot (the "witch") and her ilk is pathetic and misguided.

> Did you know that according to the Bible it is permissable for a father
> to sleep with his daughters in order to sire children?
> Check out the story of Moab in the old testament.
...
> You are right, the bible doesn't explicitly say it is ok

It is explicit in saying it is NOT okay. Leviticus 18:6
"none of you shall approach any one near of kin to him to uncover nakedness. I am the LORD."

Then it goes through every possible combination as relates to a male of what would be considered someone "near" and outlays every other combination too. "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. And you shall not lie with any beast and defile yourself with it, neither shall any woman give herself to a beast to lie with it: it is perversion." Generally the penalty for every offense here was death, usually stoning, some offenses by burning.

Noah cursed Caanan because he "looked" at his father's nakedness.

If you are talking about Lot and his two daughters in Exodus you are wrong. If if was permissable they never would have needed to get their father drunk. Because sober he would have rebuked them the same as he rebuked the men of Sodom that wanted to rape his men guests (angels) even though he was willing to give his daughters instead. The daughters put their trust in themselves, not GOD, to get them husbands. The result ...

Psalms 83
They say, "Come, let us wipe them out as a nation; let the name of Israel be remembered no more!" ....
Assyria also has joined them; they are the strong arm of the children of Lot.

> We are perfectly within our rights, in the Western world,
> to make up our own minds about things.

I saw the interview on TV years ago when the books were first released. This is the poor woman that got her ideas for the book while riding the subway, correct? I read a few pages from the first HP book, enough to confirm it deserved to be tossed.

 

Ya know, the kids these days miss out on so much of the things that were available to me in my day.......art class, choir, band (well they still have that if you have the $'s to afford it). Everything that promotes creativity is gone. Creative minds promote active minds. If I had the choice of being home schooled or out in the general public, I'd chose the public. Why narrow children's minds, those minds that will eventually run our country, with narrow thoughts. I can't say that I know any of my friends that have been home schooled or even "banned" by their parents from "reading" a book. I do however have friends that have been sheltered from the realities of life and LK & Theo have hit the nail on the head. All that the "perfect society" is creating are some really messed up adults.

Popular kids shows (and adults to boot) in my day were Bewitched and I Dream Genie. I spent many a day in my youth trying to twitch my nose and crossing my arms & nodding my head to play the part, but it was just playing - and I knew it - give kids credit. I also spent many an hour doing the "Cowboy & Indian" thing with my brothers. That type of fantasy playing is something that's not allowed by many of the new age parents now-a-days and it's really a sad thing to see. Fantasy playing, just as books that are fantasy's that intrigue children, are considered wrong by some these days.

The thing that's wrong is the limit people try to put on childrens minds. You're gonna grow up to be whatever is in your destiny, why try and hinder a persons destiny by implanting your own moral values.

I could go on for days on this subject - in fact it took me days to decide to reply - I'll stop here for the time. I got most of my say across I hope.

 

There are several episodes of Next Generation where the existance of God is questioned, even some episodes that call current 21st century beliefs "mythology."

What makes a child watching someone zapping a unicorn any different than you watching Ben Kenobi telling Luke to use the "Force" in a battle?

How about big band music? Pretty tame, huh? Not exactly, in the 40s it was the devils music that resulted in dancing. Same thing with 50s doowap, 60s rock-n-roll, etc.

Its all relative.

 

Show me ONE child that has started practicing real witchcraft because he or she read a Harry Potter book. Sorry, but that child does not exist. Oh sure, someone here will say they talked to their brother-in-law's best friends ex-boss who has a cousin whose daughters best friend got into it this way, but we know where that leads. Like if you start letting gays into the beauty-salon business, then all the hairdressers will turn gay, right? Oh, wait a minute- that's already happened. Never mind....................

 

rebocardo and others--


I realize that the bible has many prohibitions on sexual behavior. My point was that you can take any piece of writing and quote it out of context in an attempt to discredit the whole book. I think this happens with a great many 'banned books'. Somebody takes selected portions of a book and then attempts to persuade others that the book should not be read by anyone. It is heretical. It is not safe. It goes against the laws of man and nature. Whatever the situation, people will find a reason.

Just like I expected, nobody bought the BS about the Bible story. You, among others, have obviously read the Bible and understand what is being said. You did not accept my limited interpretation about the Bible. Yet, too often, people do the exact opposite. They fall prey to the mindset of "I will accept what you tell me about 'Tom Sawyer' or 'Bridge to Terebithia' or 'Of Mice and Men' or Harry Potter' without actually reading the book myself" and I strongly believe this to be wrong.

As Americans and Canadians, we pride ourselves on being educated, civilized people. We pride ourselves on our ability to think critically. In fact, we collectively shake our heads at peoples around the world who don't seem to have that skill embedded in their culture. We don't believe in superstitions. We don't cut off pieces of women's sexual organs (although we do that to boys--but for a different reason) in order to keep them modest. We don't offer up sacrifices of burnt lamb to the Lord (even though he supposedly finds it 'pleasing'). Unlike ancient peoples, we don't slice open the bellies of live pigs and try to interpret the pattern their guts fall into. We no longer believe in dragons (as in Saint George and the Dragon). We know these things are foolish and accomplish nothing. However in some places or at some times, they were considered to be almost sancrosanct.

For the most part, we attempt to be rational. We believe that the pursuit of knowledge is the surest way to freedom and the best tool for fighting evil.

So if for no other reason, you should read Harry Potter and every other evil book, just so you know what you might be up against in the fight against Satan. Unless of course, you are afraid that you will fall under his spell too.

whistler

 

You guys are getting to deep. This book is about kids finally becoming excited about reading. Think about the number of people that have a fifth grade reading level because they didn't have this kind of book. I hate to say this but its the majority age group of FTE users. It doesn't have anything to do with owning a ford, so don't take it there. We should be praising this book for helping people learn to read or at least help. This is no joke, literacy is very important in todays society.

 

So I guess since I played Dungeons & Dragons when I was younger, I am going to hell as well..... God Bless America. The land of a thousand opinions. What would you rather believe in:
Witches and warlocks or
Our government?

Sorry I had too....