TTB vs Solid axle
Logistics Pro
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,744
Likes: 5
From: Earth
just out of curosity, (yes i know this will be subjective at best) but which axle type would be "better" for F series trucks seeing a mix of road/off road use or possibility of seeing off road type use from time to time?
like my truck for example it sees mostly road use and is used like a truck is supposed to be used, for hauling things...
like my truck for example it sees mostly road use and is used like a truck is supposed to be used, for hauling things...
Posting Guru
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,271
Likes: 9
From: Franklin, IN
Unless you're negotiating trails at low speeds that require more articulation then the TTB D44 can give, then the TTB is an excellent setup.
The D44 TTB provides much greater control and ride quality at speed then conventional solid axles while still maintaining the strength of a solid D44. The downside is wheel travel is limited by th center U-joint.
Install a set of extended radius arms and a D50 center stub shaft and you'll greatly improve the articulation capabilities of the TTB system, but it still wont come close to what a solid axle can achieve.
The D44 TTB provides much greater control and ride quality at speed then conventional solid axles while still maintaining the strength of a solid D44. The downside is wheel travel is limited by th center U-joint.
Install a set of extended radius arms and a D50 center stub shaft and you'll greatly improve the articulation capabilities of the TTB system, but it still wont come close to what a solid axle can achieve.
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,006
Likes: 71
From: Roseville, MN
Personally I'm not a big fan of the TTB. As I said before, every one I've had has had driveline vibration. TTB can be aligned well (even with a lift), but it's still more of a tire-eater than most solid axle setups. And personally I don't think the ride is enough different to be significant, at least as I use trucks.
That said, I have a TTB in my current '97 F-250, and I have no intention of swapping a solid axle into it.
So ultimately I'd say the best axle type for your truck is the one that's already in your truck.
That said, I have a TTB in my current '97 F-250, and I have no intention of swapping a solid axle into it.
So ultimately I'd say the best axle type for your truck is the one that's already in your truck.
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,006
Likes: 71
From: Roseville, MN
Oh, another thing. F-250 (and early '80s F-350) TTBs use leaf springs. A leaf spring tries to make the wheel swing through an arc around the fixed end of the spring as the suspension cycles. Meanwhile the TTB tries to make it swing around the beam pivot point. That creates a bind in the suspension which probably hurts the ride quality of F-250 TTB considerably. A solid axle, even with the additional unsprung weight, isn't likely to be much worse and could even be better.
F-150 TTBs use coil springs and radius bars. If the radius bar bushings flex enough this won't bind up nearly as bad as an F-250 TTB. So ride in an F-150 with TTB might be better than an F-150 with a solid axle.
I know my F-150 (TTB) was one of the best riding truck's I've had. But my '08 F-250, my '71 Bronco and my '02 F-350 (all solid axles) were about the same. My '85 F-250 and '97 F-250 (both TTB) were/are quite a bit rougher riding (the lifted CJ5 was the worst).
F-150 TTBs use coil springs and radius bars. If the radius bar bushings flex enough this won't bind up nearly as bad as an F-250 TTB. So ride in an F-150 with TTB might be better than an F-150 with a solid axle.
I know my F-150 (TTB) was one of the best riding truck's I've had. But my '08 F-250, my '71 Bronco and my '02 F-350 (all solid axles) were about the same. My '85 F-250 and '97 F-250 (both TTB) were/are quite a bit rougher riding (the lifted CJ5 was the worst).
Posting Guru
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,271
Likes: 9
From: Franklin, IN
Driveline vibrations have absolutely nothing to do with the TTB design, you had something else wrong.
Nothing Special is spot on about the leaf sprung TTB. Simple physics tells us that it simply won't work correctly.
Nothing Special is spot on about the leaf sprung TTB. Simple physics tells us that it simply won't work correctly.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,006
Likes: 71
From: Roseville, MN
If you've had good luck with TTBs, great. But I stand by what I said, I'm personally not a fan, but not to the point where I'd swap out the TTB in my current F-250.
Senior User
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
From: Montana
I have two 4x4 3/4 tons with the TTB front axle, and three Explorers with the axle and have never had any odd vibrations in them. I also have owned two Bronco's with this axle and no vibrations on it either.
As I said in an earlier message, I am currently looking for 2 Dana 60's to do the swap on my 3/4tons.
As I said in an earlier message, I am currently looking for 2 Dana 60's to do the swap on my 3/4tons.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,250
Likes: 1
On paper, the Dana 60 is stronger than the 50. In a mostly road use vehicle, there is no great advantage to a solid axle over a TTB setup. In theory, the TTB Dana 50 should have better ride than the 60, but with the swing shackles located at the front of the vehicle, and some binding between the swing arc of a leaf spring and the TTB arm and there isn't going to be a huge difference between the 50 and 60.
I'm swapping out my Dana 50 TTB to a Dana 60 solid axle for two main reasons. One, I need to do ball joints, tie rods, bearings, seals, etc. I didn't have time to do it all at once nor the money, so I bought a Dana 60 axle to slowly work on over time. Second, the TTB setup isn't conducive to a lift (albeit I'm doing a small one) as the camber is greatly affected. Also, with the Dana 60, I have the capability of doing a reversed shackle kit with Super Duty leafs which should make for a better ride. The Dana 50 is not compatible with either. Lastly, there's a better selection of aftermarket parts for the Dana 60 than the 50, so I have better options for a locker down the road.
I'm swapping out my Dana 50 TTB to a Dana 60 solid axle for two main reasons. One, I need to do ball joints, tie rods, bearings, seals, etc. I didn't have time to do it all at once nor the money, so I bought a Dana 60 axle to slowly work on over time. Second, the TTB setup isn't conducive to a lift (albeit I'm doing a small one) as the camber is greatly affected. Also, with the Dana 60, I have the capability of doing a reversed shackle kit with Super Duty leafs which should make for a better ride. The Dana 50 is not compatible with either. Lastly, there's a better selection of aftermarket parts for the Dana 60 than the 50, so I have better options for a locker down the road.
Junior User
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
From: Connecticut
A tech question on the light duty 44 and 50 parts
So, being that were throwing all this talk around, I figure I'll ask this:
I understand that a popular upgrade to a 1/2 ton 44 TTB is to use the 50 center u joint. In essence, you're using the passenger side inner stub off the differential. You supposedly can also go as far as using the entire 50 third member on the 1/2 ton 44 arms as the bolt pattern is inferred to be the same. This all sounds interesting and plausible, no confusion here.
The question I have is "Can you use the 50 knuckles on a 1/2 ton 44? If so, this may give you the ability to use the entire 50 shafts and larger hubs?
I understand that a popular upgrade to a 1/2 ton 44 TTB is to use the 50 center u joint. In essence, you're using the passenger side inner stub off the differential. You supposedly can also go as far as using the entire 50 third member on the 1/2 ton 44 arms as the bolt pattern is inferred to be the same. This all sounds interesting and plausible, no confusion here.
The question I have is "Can you use the 50 knuckles on a 1/2 ton 44? If so, this may give you the ability to use the entire 50 shafts and larger hubs?
Posting Guru
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,271
Likes: 9
From: Franklin, IN
The outer stubs on the D50 are the same size as the D44s so you will gain no strength with the swaps fit is even possible. You are correct about the third member and inner stub swapping over.
Junior User
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
From: Connecticut
Its more the issue of the U joint. A 1350 I am told is on the 50. If I was to go the route of "cut and turn", grafting the 50's knuckles on the longer 44 arm has crossed my mind. Especially if the ball joints are bigger, seems like a budget build pay-off. 2 birds, one stone.
Posting Guru
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,271
Likes: 9
From: Franklin, IN
Its more the issue of the U joint. A 1350 I am told is on the 50. If I was to go the route of "cut and turn", grafting the 50's knuckles on the longer 44 arm has crossed my mind. Especially if the ball joints are bigger, seems like a budget build pay-off. 2 birds, one stone.