I'd bet that Thomabb is right, and what you're feeling when towing (and that part is critical), is the transmission shifting from 4th to 3rd, and unlocking the TC at the same time. (I only hesitate a little because 45mph is really slow to be towing in 4th gear up any sort of grade, so maybe it's not even in 4th to begin with? Testing this empty on flat ground is not the same as the condition of towing uphill, and I couldn't tell which way you tested.) If you stay on the pedal when that downshift occurs, it'll take 10 seconds to lock up again, depending on the PCM code you have. (I'm guessing yours is EBM2.) If you very lightly - almost imperceptibly - feather the pedal pressure, you can get it to lock in just a couple of seconds, then ease back into it and it'll stay locked. I towed in the Rockies for a number of years with a stock tranny, and was forced to get pretty good at this, just to keep tranny temps down. If you happen to have AE, or access to it, you can verify exactly what gear you are in by logging the shift solenoids and TC state. Torque might be able to do it, but I know AE can.

Full disclosure: I didn't chip my X until the tranny went out (coast clutch) and I had a BTS. Now, another opinion, and one not intended to start a war.

A good tow tune can really help in these situations. The upshifts will occur at higher speeds, and the TC will stay locked pretty much all the time, including on the 4-->3 downshift. As an added bonus, the CC will be locked any time you aren't in 4th, so the truck will slow when coasting. (That can be hard on the coast clutch in a stock tranny...) I tried several different tuner's tow tunes, and the only one that behaved this way was DP's. The rest just felt like stock tranny calibrations. Other folks may be able to write a good tranny calibration for towing, but I couldn't find anyone who would sell me one. I actually switched back to DP just because of this.

There's nothing that says that you have to go nuts on power if you decide to chip. A 20hp tune sounds like it would be plenty. You might even see if one of them will write you a tow tune with "stock" fueling calibrations. The only problem with that, from my minimal experience, is that a tuner's "stock", and Ford's "stock", aren't necessarily the same.

Good luck, and let us know what you do!

Mark

 

You are correct I wasn't checking with the trailer. It is very possible I am wrong, trust me it wouldn't be the first time.

 

I'm with ScaldedDog on this. Chipping with a tow tune will dial the transmission and the power to something that actually improves the towing capability. OTR trucks are tuned to tow, not be a daily driver. Superduties are tuned to be a daily driver with some towing... albeit a very good compromise. A pure tow tune would be impractical as a daily driver. You might consider a programmer. The Infinity (from DP) is a programmer and an OBDII scan tool/gauge set. It's pricy, but it has great utility. You can just get a plain ol' programmer with a couple of good tunes in there to save a lot of money. A chip might be overkill in your situation, but that change on the fly is nice.

 

From your description the infinity sounds great, I priced it out and it got expensive fast. I have $1k budget, a little begging could get it increased but I think it's priced too high for me.

I really like the idea of a chip, with a chip if all else fails I still have the factory program that works well.



The hydra seems like a good value and I'm leaning in that direction

 

Well I have a few suggestions and I think there has been some very good points pointed out. So I think you have gotten some great input so far. But the one thing I have learned from the FTE brotherhood is that getting all the fundamentals done first before getting tunes. That means make sure the engine, trans has no issues or codes and gauges before installing a chip or tunes. There are so many times I see young guys (never old dudes) feel the need to run out and buy a chip or tunes before getting the truck running correctly. Then they are blaming the tuner or chasing problems. And chasing problems or codes is easier to do before you start changing things.

I myself have a E99 with stock/ Ford tunes and I have issues with the engine running correctly I have been chasing for a couple years. But at some point I was going to just get DP to burn a different tune on my pcm. Because I can not afford a chip or some fancy set up that does everything. I guess I could wish in one hand and poop in the other and see which one fills up first. Actually I have already tried that and
I didn't like the out come. Let me get back on topic....... I tow and launch a boat and trailer that is about 8000-8500lbs and I actually have some issues with the stock shift strategy but I have been able to manually get it do what I want most of the time by turning off the OD or manual shift and a little foot work on the skinny pedal. So I suggest you try that first.

My second suggestion would load your truck and trailer the way you would when towing and take it to a scale and weigh it. Never trust people when they say a trailer weighs x amount of lbs. I towed a trailer for a guy last spring and he told me it weighed 7500lbs and I towed it 250 miles and on purpose or not he was wrong!! It was over 10k and axles/ tires were rated for 8k. And the truck acted alot different with that load then it did when pulling my 8k boat.

 

I think the 5600 lbs sounds accurate for an empty trailer with a dry weight of less than 5300 lbs. I will weigh it in the spring when I load it for travel. I have a trip planned for next summer and will be traveling through the rocky mountains I want to be prepared.

 

Back to the top on this one.

Is there any reason to go with the F6 over the F5 when combining it with the infinity.

 

I might be stepping on toes here, but I believe the F5 has the tunes hard-programmed in, then Infinity just tells the F5 which tune to run. The F6 has a USB port and the ability to receive tunes via email (you have to put them in with a laptop, or maybe Infinity can transfer them in from an SD chip... I dunno).

 

If the Infinity doesn't actually program the F5, and I don't think it does, avoid it unless you think the first tunes DP sends you are going to be exactly what you want. As soon as you say, "You know, I like that tune, except...", you get to pull the chip and spend a few bucks and about a week before you get to try the new change. Jody is really fast at turning around changes, but shipping still takes time.

I just noticed you live in Ontario. I don't ship much between the US and Canada, but I assume it's both expensive, and slow. If I were you, there's no way I'd buy an F5, unless the Infinity can change what's on it.

Mark

 

The cross border shipping is a pain I normally have my stuff shipped to family in buffalo and definitely don't want to be sending it back repeatedly.

I thought that because the infinity could change the programs on the truck that it would be able to change them on the F5 as well. I guess I should probably call and ask. The infinity is more than I had planned on spending but I'm trying to buy what is right for me.

 

I have to ask: Do you really need switch on the fly? I've been to Ontario and it's freaking flat... so I can't think of a scenario where you would need to switch back and forth once you hook up or unhook. If you can survive without switch on the fly, just the Infinity with the hub and sensors will cover the programmer, the gauges, and the scan tool all in one hit. That's not such a bad price, with everything factored in. It's $500 just for a proper 3-gauge kit with pillar or pod.

 

Rich, I think I saw where he had a trip to the Rockies planned... Also, not having SOTF means not having a decel tune.

John, you might PM Justin from DP. I don't know him, but he's pretty responsive, and will probably answer on the weekend. Have him post here, if you would, as this has become a pretty good thread, and having the Infinity/F6/F5 relationship documented would add to it.

If you were closer, I'd let you try my setup. We have the same vehicle and similar weight trailers. I can even emulate Ontario - just head east...

Mark

 

Yes it is fairly flat in Ontario. The kids and I are planning an 8 week trip to the west coast and I'm trying to prepare for it now. This is my first experience with any sort of tuner/gauges and I just want to get what is right. If I have to spend a few extra dollars it's not going to kill me. I don't want any surprises in the mountains running a tow tune with no way to switch it, perhaps I'm just being paranoid I do tend to over think things.

 

Now I certainly can't speak for everybody, but after MANY years of daily driving and towing, both in town and on the interstate for hours on end, I can't for the life of me figure out why people need eight trillion "tunes" anyway. Two different calibrations at the most is all most people (maybe it's just me being naive again) are all that should be needed for any given vehicle that sees "normal" duty - stock or not. I don't live in the most mountainous part of the country, but it is certainly far from the flattest. I also live in a region in which I can fill my tank and drive 400 miles to the Idaho border without stopping (if I can "hold it" that long) and never take my cruise control off of 75-80 MPH save for construction zones and two towns that call for 65 MPH through their borders. Throughout all of those miles, there are three passes, a lot of flats, and a ton of places that have severe head winds.

Once the vehicle is underway and in fourth gear (or sixth for those "roll-your-own" guys), it doesn't matter one bit what calibration you're in. If you're trying to drive sanely and not irritate others on the road, there's no difference between using a stock calibration or a performance-oriented calibration. They will both do the same exact thing with likely the same fuel economy. Once you factor in cruise control, there is ZERO difference....unless the tuning has some way of taking over the steering and braking duties for you too. Just because a calibration is referred to as "towing" doesn't mean you can't use it for daily usage. Oftentimes in a towing-based calibration, the transmission shift points are more in line with what a stock truck should have shifted like from the factory anyway. Again, once the vehicle is in top gear, you'll never know the difference between the calibrations anyway.

With a manual transmission vehicle, people are buying power levels...that's IT. Sure, there will be some differences between the accelerator pedal feel from company "A" than company "B". Regardless, the owners of these vehicles will find one calibration they like and stay with it exclusively anyway; never taking it out of that calibration unless something really heavy needs to follow the vehicle. Two calibrations.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is as follows:

Drive to work: Need one calibration.
Drive to the store or movie theater: Same calibration.
Take the wife to her mother's house: Same calibration.
Interstate driving: Same calibration.
Pick wife up from her mother's house: Smoke tune. (JOKING!!!)
Move your lawn mower trailer across town: Same tune.
Drive to your kids' soccer game: Same tune.
Load one ton of home-improvement supplies from Home Depot in the box: Same tune.

Tow a 15,000 lb. trailer around town: Might want a lower-power calibration to keep from having to pay too much attention to the pyrometer.
Tow a 15,000 lb. trailer down the interstate: Same tune.


Accuse me of being a simpleton all you want. I can't possibly speak for everybody, but I know enough people around here that run all sorts of different stuff calibration-wise and they all use one or two calibrations regardless of how many "tunes" their calibration-storing device of choice
holds. Granted, there are people that have actually worn-out the switches on their chips (how in the hell that happens is beyond me since I've used the same TS Performance switch to program all of PHP's Phoenix chips since early 2010 without issue...and if you've programmed a TS Performance chip, you know there's a ton of switching involved). I'm convinced also that there have been people who have worn out the buttons on a Moates EX switch (the ones for the F5/F6) too. I would have to say that those numbers are pretty low though. There are a lot of TS Performance and EX switches out there that have served for MANY years without problems.

 

I'm not completely following what you are saying here. If you are suggesting that I don't need the shift on the fly, you may very well be correct. However personally I would feel better with the ability to change my tune on the fly if I notice my EGT rising with out having to stop to do it.

If you are saying you don't see the need for 16 different tunes I'd have to agree with you. I've been using exactly 1 tune on every vehicle I've ever owned. However this will be the first time I'll be in the mountains towing and I would like to have options available to me. Like I said in my original post I wasn't happy with the way my transmission was shifting and that is what lead me to the tuner. Only time will tell if I'm a fool for spending my money on a tuner. From what I can tell from my towing on moderate grades for short distances trying to be prepared for the rockies isn't a bad idea.