Performance upgrades question
Butt-Head
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 9,455
Likes: 2,938
From: Reed Point, MT
"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference." - Reinhold
....or just give me the ability to hold my tongue.
....or just give me the ability to hold my tongue.
you can't fix stupid!
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,906
Likes: 2
no i didnt mix them up.....146 is the stock nozzle size.....160/100 means 160cc's/100% over stock nozzle size basically double stock size....
you can't fix stupid!
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,906
Likes: 2
lol.................
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Junior User
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
From: Katy, TX
dont go with 160/100's aka stage 2's.....either go with a nice stage 1 which will be 160/146 or 175/146 or jump straight to "stage 3's" or better known as hybrids.....238 or 250 injectors.....hybrids use less oil and are easier to tune......and skip the 38r....go with an h2e or equivalent......
Thanks
It's a Van Gogh
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 7,813
Likes: 1,335
From: Elk Grove, CA
Did not see it mentioned yet, but your 2003 has powdered metal rods (PMRs) not the forged rods of 2001 and earlier motors. So 500 HP is off the table. I think the most HP I've seen on PMRs is 480 or so on Curtis' (aka Pocket) carefully tuned motor. My dos centavos is stay as close to stock as possible and let the tuning do the job. A 38R and stage 1s count as stock in my book, since those are the result of IH engineering. That said, the Hutch/harpoon mods and FRx are minimally invasive and very worthwhile.
you can't fix stupid!
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,906
Likes: 2
Just curious, what's your reasoning as to why I shouldn't go with 160/100's? As much as I'd love to get up to 450+ hp, I'd much rather have a 400hp truck that's fun to drive everyday rather than a 450+hp truck that is jerky and frustrating during everyday driving. If there is an affordable way to get to 450+hp without compromising daily driving then I'm all ears.
Thanks
Thanks
94-03 Stage One Single Shot 160CC
you can't fix stupid!
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,906
Likes: 2
Did not see it mentioned yet, but your 2003 has powdered metal rods (PMRs) not the forged rods of 2001 and earlier motors. So 500 HP is off the table. I think the most HP I've seen on PMRs is 480 or so on Curtis' (aka Pocket) carefully tuned motor. My dos centavos is stay as close to stock as possible and let the tuning do the job. A 38R and stage 1s count as stock in my book, since those are the result of IH engineering. That said, the Hutch/harpoon mods and FRx are minimally invasive and very worthwhile.
175/146 Single Shot Injectors, Tow (Mild Street) - Swamp's Diesel Performance
Super Moderator
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 29,380
Likes: 118
From: Central Coast of CA
Cody, you can educate with an enriching experience, and still be all warm and fuzzy. I know you can!
BTW, to the OP, AC codes, the aforementioned 160 injectors with stock nozzles, are a great choice. I loved 'em in my '02 F250 with a 38R. Although in hindsight, I'd have gone with the 160/100's Bill mentioned above. I want those sticks for my wife's Excursion.
Stewart
Last edited by Stewart_H; Sep 25, 2013 at 12:37 AM.
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Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2011
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Likes: 179
From: Puget Sound
- I own a truck with stage IIs (AC 160/100). They were a bugger to tune when I had other issues with the truck, but repairing those other issues made my truck silky smooth throughout the whole power band. I've also experienced a live-tuning session and we experimented a lot. I didn't see "Stinky" go out of whack during our experiments, telling me the truck was stable and open to many variations on tuning. In essence: I'm saying a truck with issues is hard to tune, but a stable truck (loosely referred to as 100% truck) with the right injectors changes the equation.
- Stage IIs are not that oil hungry, I know of a certain tuner that could get AC 160/100s to work just fine with a stock HPOP (in good condition). Our trucks at this age and these miles rarely have a spry HPOP anymore, so a HPOP replacement/upgrade can be in the cards. This stems back to that 100% truck thing. I have a T500 and it's more than enough to handle these sticks. I wouldn't want to tackle hybrids because I needed to compensate for a weak HPOP... but that's me.
- I've experienced a truck with stage 3s. They were too big and a bugger to get the tuning right at low power settings (like cruise)... but they sure started nice and were quiet.
- My 160s are at the performance edge of the stock fuel system, so I can get away with OEM. It is my strong opinion that injectors capable of dumping more than 165ccs per 1000 cycles need a bigger fuel pump at the very minimum. This is not just based on street experience with a gauge (which I've done), this is based on doing the math: I designed pump systems in a previous career. Any bigger pump will not match the reliability of the OEM... Bosch was contracted by Ford to make this special diesel pump with these performance specs and design criteria. One example of the uniqueness of the design is that the brushes are wet. Since the LSD fuel at the time had lubricating qualities and diesel doesn't react to sparks like gas does, they plumbed the fuel into the brushes to extend their life. The OEM pump should potentially outlast just about any electric fuel pump on the market. Read the fine print on the Walbros, the other Bosch fuel pumps, and myriad other options that allegedly work in our trucks: They are engineered for racing and/or gasoline. This means they were not engineered for our application... so their longevity is in question.
- I mentioned the PMRs, thank you for confirming that one.
- Hutch mod before FRx. The Hutch mod prevents one of the problems that the FRx is supposed to compensate for. I still like the FRx as an addition because it eliminates the deadhead. A regulated fuel return will perform this function nicely, maybe even better - I haven't used one yet.
- Your questions tell me you haven't clicked that link I mentioned. I'll make it more convenient: [Click Here]
Cargo Master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,902
Likes: 2
From: Pasadena, Maryland
You can do all the mods you want but they aren't worth a good Romeo Foxtrot without PROPER tuning...Do your research VERY carefully before shelling out hard earned cash. Especially if you decide to change your sticks.....
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2011
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From: Puget Sound
Super Moderator
Joined: May 2004
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From: Central Coast of CA
Stewart
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2009
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From: ellensburg
Dont let anyone tell you to not get certain injectors because they are hard to tune. I'm running 330/200% injectors right now, tuning it myself, and in my modified stock tune, the truck literally acts exactly like a stock truck.
My 80 daily driver tune made 494HP and that is the tune the truck stays in 24/7. That is also a almost smokeless 494 on the street. My all out tune made 557HP with the turbo having issues spooling up until way high in the RPM range, which was most likely a result of my poor driving on the dyno. The key when it comes to injectors and tuning is having a set of injectors that the tuner understands and knows how to work with, as well as having a set that is completely balanced in terms of their oil consumption as well as their fuel output.
A set of aftermarket injectors that are built correctly, should have no problem with tuning, unless there is an underlying issue, or the owner/tuner have disagreements as far as how to tune them. That and the owner has to understand that any aftermarket injectors (more fuel) are going to sound different than stock injectors.
My 80 daily driver tune made 494HP and that is the tune the truck stays in 24/7. That is also a almost smokeless 494 on the street. My all out tune made 557HP with the turbo having issues spooling up until way high in the RPM range, which was most likely a result of my poor driving on the dyno. The key when it comes to injectors and tuning is having a set of injectors that the tuner understands and knows how to work with, as well as having a set that is completely balanced in terms of their oil consumption as well as their fuel output.
A set of aftermarket injectors that are built correctly, should have no problem with tuning, unless there is an underlying issue, or the owner/tuner have disagreements as far as how to tune them. That and the owner has to understand that any aftermarket injectors (more fuel) are going to sound different than stock injectors.
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,025
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From: ellensburg
I'll just leave this right here...
As you can hear and see, the turbo was not spooling because I didnt roll into it as I should have, instead I floored it. That being said, the second run (first full one you see) did 557HP and the last one did 552HP. You also catch the tail end of the daily driver tune that did 494HP. You can also hear how the truck sounds. Enjoy.
As you can hear and see, the turbo was not spooling because I didnt roll into it as I should have, instead I floored it. That being said, the second run (first full one you see) did 557HP and the last one did 552HP. You also catch the tail end of the daily driver tune that did 494HP. You can also hear how the truck sounds. Enjoy.
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Junior User
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
From: Katy, TX
Thanks for all the info Rich! That write up in the link was very helpful. Since I have PMRs it looks like I'll be sticking with 400hp seeing as I need my truck to be reliable. I'm not sure how many miles are on my stock HPOP but it's got alot. Since I need to replace it anyway I'm going to go ahead and get the T500. I will be ordering a fuel pressure gauge in the next couple days and the FRx and Hutch mod will soon follow. As for tuning, I'm extremely happy with my experience with DP Tuning so far and would like to stick with them unless there are reasons I'm not aware of as to why I shouldn't stick with them. Again thanks for all the help everyone. I'm getting alot more (helpful) feedback and learning alot more than I thought I would. I can't wait till I figure out exactly what mods I'm going to do and get it all done.
Thanks
Thanks