Loosing prime - stalls
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Tuned
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 313
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From: Wyotana
Loosing prime - stalls
When I park facing uphill my truck will start, run for 5 seconds and then shuts off like it ran out of fuel. I shoot it with starting fluid then crank it for 10-15 seconds - it starts. I changed the fuel filter thinking there was water in it and the condition still persists. This has been going on for 4-5 weeks.
Today I stalled the truck 3 times!! Don't know why this happens but it seems there is no power when I start letting the clutch up. Now I have to drive it like a gas job and give it fuel when I'm letting the clutch up.
Are the 2 related??
I know my clutch is not long for this world, but I would think that it would start to slip rather than cause a stall. Occasionally, If I thump the throttle at idle it hesitates before the rpms climb. Sometimes I back pedal the throttle (after a thump) because I think it is going to stall the engine. When I thump the throttle I am in neutral, so there is no load on the engine. Going down the road (unladden) it does fine. I haven't pulled my gooseneck since all this started. Not sure it will pull it now!!
'88 F-250 ZF 5 7.3 w/ ATS turbo
Today I stalled the truck 3 times!! Don't know why this happens but it seems there is no power when I start letting the clutch up. Now I have to drive it like a gas job and give it fuel when I'm letting the clutch up.
Are the 2 related??
I know my clutch is not long for this world, but I would think that it would start to slip rather than cause a stall. Occasionally, If I thump the throttle at idle it hesitates before the rpms climb. Sometimes I back pedal the throttle (after a thump) because I think it is going to stall the engine. When I thump the throttle I am in neutral, so there is no load on the engine. Going down the road (unladden) it does fine. I haven't pulled my gooseneck since all this started. Not sure it will pull it now!!
'88 F-250 ZF 5 7.3 w/ ATS turbo
Postmaster
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,860
Likes: 7
Add one of those squeeze-bulbs to the line between the mechanical low-pressure pump and the water separator. - they've got two check valves in them(and seem to be the cheapest way to add a check valve), as well as allowing you to manually suck fuel through the system(say when replacing the water seperator/filter). Dirt cheap on Ebay, and completely solved my problem(which was the same as yours, but did it in /all/ positions).
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,407
Likes: 877
From: Mi'kma'ki
When I park facing uphill my truck will start, run for 5 seconds and then shuts off like it ran out of fuel. I shoot it with starting fluid then crank it for 10-15 seconds - it starts. I changed the fuel filter thinking there was water in it and the condition still persists. This has been going on for 4-5 weeks.
Today I stalled the truck 3 times!! Don't know why this happens but it seems there is no power when I start letting the clutch up. Now I have to drive it like a gas job and give it fuel when I'm letting the clutch up.
Are the 2 related??
I know my clutch is not long for this world, but I would think that it would start to slip rather than cause a stall. Occasionally, If I thump the throttle at idle it hesitates before the rpms climb. Sometimes I back pedal the throttle (after a thump) because I think it is going to stall the engine. When I thump the throttle I am in neutral, so there is no load on the engine. Going down the road (unladden) it does fine. I haven't pulled my gooseneck since all this started. Not sure it will pull it now!!
'88 F-250 ZF 5 7.3 w/ ATS turbo
Today I stalled the truck 3 times!! Don't know why this happens but it seems there is no power when I start letting the clutch up. Now I have to drive it like a gas job and give it fuel when I'm letting the clutch up.
Are the 2 related??
I know my clutch is not long for this world, but I would think that it would start to slip rather than cause a stall. Occasionally, If I thump the throttle at idle it hesitates before the rpms climb. Sometimes I back pedal the throttle (after a thump) because I think it is going to stall the engine. When I thump the throttle I am in neutral, so there is no load on the engine. Going down the road (unladden) it does fine. I haven't pulled my gooseneck since all this started. Not sure it will pull it now!!
'88 F-250 ZF 5 7.3 w/ ATS turbo
The pressure on the return line is very small.
However when the engine is not running the suction on the line from the fuel trying to return to it's lowest level in the fuel tank can draw air into the system through leaks so small that they do not leak fuel.
That is why air intrusion into the fuel system is so hard to find sometimes.
Lots of trucks have problems when the truck is parked facing uphill but not when facing downhill. The only difference is the level of the fuel in the tank in relation to the engine level. The extra couple of feet down to the fuel level in the tank sucks air in the lines where it won't when parked with the engine downhill.
We have all been at the place you are right now at one time or another.
I wish I could point you exactly to the problem, but there are to many places the leak could be. Fortunately fuel line is cheap. Replacing the lines till you find the problem is not a big expense, just a big pain in the rear.
However when the engine is not running the suction on the line from the fuel trying to return to it's lowest level in the fuel tank can draw air into the system through leaks so small that they do not leak fuel.
That is why air intrusion into the fuel system is so hard to find sometimes.
Lots of trucks have problems when the truck is parked facing uphill but not when facing downhill. The only difference is the level of the fuel in the tank in relation to the engine level. The extra couple of feet down to the fuel level in the tank sucks air in the lines where it won't when parked with the engine downhill.
We have all been at the place you are right now at one time or another.
I wish I could point you exactly to the problem, but there are to many places the leak could be. Fortunately fuel line is cheap. Replacing the lines till you find the problem is not a big expense, just a big pain in the rear.
agreed;
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...l#post10774080
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Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Dec 2011
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From: Wyotana
I called my local CarQest and O'Reilly's. Both were "huh, o-rings??? fuel line return kit??? What's that???
It is fun to hire the mentally handicapped - just to watch them.
Is there an online diesel place that will know what parts I need?
It is fun to hire the mentally handicapped - just to watch them.
Is there an online diesel place that will know what parts I need?
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Fleet Owner
Joined: Jul 2006
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From: Mi'kma'ki
however,you may want to check this out instead:
Good quality Return line kit
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Tuned
Joined: Dec 2011
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From: Wyotana
Well it has only taken a year but I got the return lines installed. I parked down hill for a year but last month it started loosing prime when I was even parked pointing down hill. When I had to ask another guy at Lowe's for a pull to get my truck started - the wife gave me the --"your truck is embarrassing me" look!! This was the motivating factor ;-)
I discovered 2 things while doing the return line install:
1) #2 injector's fuel line was cross threaded and may have been sucking air. I replaced the injector with an injector from a junkyard engine that I bought some time ago. It is a 6.9, not a 7.3 but I hope it will work. Now when I start the engine, I get a good quantity of blue/white smoke. After 1 minute at 800-1500 rpm it clears up. Will this clear up with use?? Do I need a super dose of Lucas Injector cleaner?? I haven't loaded the engine since I put the injector in - will it blow blue going down the road under a load?? If it doesn't clear up, can I take the top off of this injector and put it on the original injector that had the threads goofed up?? One inj is a Stanphene (sp?) the other is a Delphi.
2) What is this other cable?? It looks like a "kick down" linkage for the transmission. Problem is, I have a 5 spd manual. Is it hooked to anything?? What is it for?? The red one on top is the throttle.
I discovered 2 things while doing the return line install:
1) #2 injector's fuel line was cross threaded and may have been sucking air. I replaced the injector with an injector from a junkyard engine that I bought some time ago. It is a 6.9, not a 7.3 but I hope it will work. Now when I start the engine, I get a good quantity of blue/white smoke. After 1 minute at 800-1500 rpm it clears up. Will this clear up with use?? Do I need a super dose of Lucas Injector cleaner?? I haven't loaded the engine since I put the injector in - will it blow blue going down the road under a load?? If it doesn't clear up, can I take the top off of this injector and put it on the original injector that had the threads goofed up?? One inj is a Stanphene (sp?) the other is a Delphi.
2) What is this other cable?? It looks like a "kick down" linkage for the transmission. Problem is, I have a 5 spd manual. Is it hooked to anything?? What is it for?? The red one on top is the throttle.
Elder User
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 867
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From: North Bend
Eliminating the return line off the top of the fuel filter header is the first and best option in the trouble-shooting process
This line was eliminated in a TSB many years ago, I had the uphill no-start problem for years and even after the return line replacement it still happened until I removed this hose. The only issue is when you do get an air problem from running out of fuel, you'll have to use the Schrader valve to purge the air back out of the filter.
Thinking out loud here, keep the return like(make it clear), but put an inline valve straight from the fuel header and connect the clear return line to that. Leave it closed until you need to purge air. With the clear hose you can see when the air bubbles stop! Whoo! Amazing.
If you have done both of these things and still get issues, check your fuel heater for leaks also.
Hope this helps,
Joshua
This line was eliminated in a TSB many years ago, I had the uphill no-start problem for years and even after the return line replacement it still happened until I removed this hose. The only issue is when you do get an air problem from running out of fuel, you'll have to use the Schrader valve to purge the air back out of the filter.
Thinking out loud here, keep the return like(make it clear), but put an inline valve straight from the fuel header and connect the clear return line to that. Leave it closed until you need to purge air. With the clear hose you can see when the air bubbles stop! Whoo! Amazing.
If you have done both of these things and still get issues, check your fuel heater for leaks also.
Hope this helps,
Joshua
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 313
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From: Wyotana
I like the clear hose idea (w/ a valve)!!
Fuel heater?? Where is that??
Thanx Tom - it does have cruise control and it worked up until the speedo quit. I replaced the nylon gear and pulled and lubed the cable. Still doesn't work - it works when I put a drill on it - I think there is a problem in the transfer case. The transmission/clutch will not make another 10K, so when they come down, I'll look at the T-case.
Fuel heater?? Where is that??
Thanx Tom - it does have cruise control and it worked up until the speedo quit. I replaced the nylon gear and pulled and lubed the cable. Still doesn't work - it works when I put a drill on it - I think there is a problem in the transfer case. The transmission/clutch will not make another 10K, so when they come down, I'll look at the T-case.
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Dec 2011
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From: Wyotana
I have also heard about "turning the fuel up". This truck has always been sluggish compared to my '89. Could my 89 have had the fuel turned up and this one ('88) not??
How do I turn the fuel up and how do I know when it is too much??
Both trucks are identical except I regeared the 89 to 3.55 gears, while the 88 has 4.10 gears. The 89 is "peppier" and gets 20.5mpg (but noisier in the cab). The 88 is sluggish and gets 17 mpg (but is quieter inside).
I realize by going off on the fuel tangent, I am hi jacking my own thread!!
How do I turn the fuel up and how do I know when it is too much??
Both trucks are identical except I regeared the 89 to 3.55 gears, while the 88 has 4.10 gears. The 89 is "peppier" and gets 20.5mpg (but noisier in the cab). The 88 is sluggish and gets 17 mpg (but is quieter inside).
I realize by going off on the fuel tangent, I am hi jacking my own thread!!
i ain't rite
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 65,623
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From: Marlboro Mental Hospital.
there is a small window on the passenger side of the pump.you open that window and roll the pump over until you can see an allen head screw with a mirror. then stick an allen wrench in and turn it up 1/8 turn at a time.
you have proper fueling when you just barely see a slight smoke haze out the exhaust at full throttle.
but i always recommend installing an exhaust temp gauge before turning up the fuel.
you have proper fueling when you just barely see a slight smoke haze out the exhaust at full throttle.
but i always recommend installing an exhaust temp gauge before turning up the fuel.