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Pre-Power Stroke Diesel (7.3L IDI & 6.9L)
Fox Valley Timing tool?

Pre-Power Stroke Diesel (7.3L IDI & 6.9L) Diesel Topics Only

Fox Valley Timing tool?

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Old

Sep 18, 2013 | 05:51 PM

#1

Twilight Fenrir

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From: Iron, MN

Fox Valley Timing tool?

Hello there,

I've got an '86 with a 6.9, and badly need to set the timing on it... I've been researching for awhile now how to go about doing so, and looking for a tool...

I understand the pulse adapters are the easiest to use, and the Ferrit ones found here: Ferret Instruments V765-01 Injector Tester - Fuel System Tools are the cheapest example of them I can find, other than getting lucky on eBay.

I hear most people don't like the Luminosity type, which I assume is only because it's kind of a pain to pull the glow plug, and install them? That being said... I appear to be able to get the setup for the Luminosity type for about $60 on eBay. And, the seller has a few of them too, which might help some other people on here in the same boat... My question here is, has anyone heard of this brand? Fox Valley? Are they something to be terrified of, or will they do what I want?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Diesel-Timing-Adapter-for-Ford-and-GM-/271262516378?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&hash=item3f2881849a&vxp=mtr
Thanks,
Richard.

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Old

Sep 18, 2013 | 08:50 PM

#2

Macrobb

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I've used one. Works great. They're new-old-stock, you'll need a new 9V battery for it.

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Old

Sep 18, 2013 | 09:18 PM

#3

Twilight Fenrir

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From: Iron, MN

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macrobb

I've used one. Works great. They're new-old-stock, you'll need a new 9V battery for it.

Thanks for the reply

I can certainly fork out the $2 for a new battery :P

I've spent the last couple hours reading up more... It seems that using the luminosity type of timer requires a different technique than the pulse meter does? Reading it ATDC, as opposed to BTDC?

I couldn't find alot of hard information... but in one post it said it was necessary to have a hall-effect timing light? O_o My understanding was, that with an instrument like this, you just needed it, and an advance timing light w/ tach function, is that correct?

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Old

Sep 19, 2013 | 05:34 AM

#4

Dieselamour

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Joined: Jun 2007

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From: Virginia

Here is a pretty inexpensive timing tool

Ferret Instruments Diesel Injection Detector / Timing Adapter - 765 for $262 and comes with a 1/4 fuel line pickup. The additional inductive pickups are $130.

Ferret Instruments , V765-01 Diesel Injection Detector / Timing Adapter - 765

You can put an inductive timing light analyzer (rpm meter) on this line. I do not know how well this tool works because I have never used this type of timing device for diesels before. The only timing tool I used for diesels was the dial and plunger type in the back of the Bosch units found in the Jettas. I am going to have to buy a timing device for my truck someday and I think this is pretty reasonable price. I hope this helps.

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Old

Sep 19, 2013 | 07:06 AM

#5

Twilight Fenrir

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From: Iron, MN

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dieselamour

Here is a pretty inexpensive timing tool

Ferret Instruments Diesel Injection Detector / Timing Adapter - 765 for $262 and comes with a 1/4 fuel line pickup. The additional inductive pickups are $130.

Ferret Instruments , V765-01 Diesel Injection Detector / Timing Adapter - 765

You can put an inductive timing light analyzer (rpm meter) on this line. I do not know how well this tool works because I have never used this type of timing device for diesels before. The only timing tool I used for diesels was the dial and plunger type in the back of the Bosch units found in the Jettas. I am going to have to buy a timing device for my truck someday and I think this is pretty reasonable price. I hope this helps.

Haha, I mentioned that in my original post

The link I provided has it for a flat $200 though...

I'm a bit strapped for cash at the moment, but I need to get my truck timed. If the $60 one will work for now, that's what I'd like to go with, I can buy the nicer one later if I feel the need... Just need to figure out what all I need to make it work, to see if I should just buy the ferret...

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Old

Sep 19, 2013 | 09:56 AM

#6

monte97z

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From: Long Island, NY

I have that fox valley and I could not figure out how to get it to work correctly. I don't know of an inductive timing gun that can set timing above tdc. All the ones I have ever seen or used read below tdc. The lumy method timing is set atdc. Also the instructions that come with it tell u to plug it in to the 30* offset on your timing light. You can probably just mark the balance for 7* atdc if I remember its 7/16 after the mark in the ballancer, but I could never figure out the 30* offset. I ended up buying the ferret adapter in the long run, that one works well.

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Old

Sep 19, 2013 | 10:34 AM

#7

Dieselamour

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From: Virginia

Ha ha on me; sorry about that. I was pressed for time so I didn't get to read all the posts. I understand about your situation and this is just as helpful for me- one million pardon me's to you- please forgive me. Anyway, I can pick it up for even less @ $192 for the 6mm & $198 with the 1/4 inch clamp at

Ferret Instruments V765-01 Injector Tester - Fuel System Tools

The other site I had given had the different pickups for $130 and the tester for $132= $262, but this site has the whole tool for only $60+- more. Good luck, I am interested in how you fair.

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Old

Sep 19, 2013 | 10:39 AM

#8

Dieselamour

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From: Virginia

I forgot. Also- This thread says that unless you have the SPECIFIC pickup tool for your crank, and most are outdated or unavailable, most of those systems will not work I think post 37 & 51. Check out this site before you buy. Good luck!

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/3...mp-timing.html

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Old

Sep 19, 2013 | 08:25 PM

#9

Macrobb

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I don't know, I didn't have any trouble. I used an ancient Snap On digital timing light with tach, and lined it up with the /top edge/ of the harmonic balancer plate thing, the one you'd put a magnetic pickup in. I adjusted things to 27 degrees on the timing light @ 2000 RPM, and that seems perfect for an IDI.
Possibly misread the book, but it sounded like I needed to add 20 deg of offset, and I took that to mean subtract 20 degrees from my reading and that's how many degrees I'm at.
I checked a truck which looked to be factory tuned, and it showed me 26 degrees, so I'm in the right ballpark I think.

Even if nothing else, it's a consistent reference point; it allows you to accurately move it. I found out that 28 is on the advanced side, 26 on the retarded side of things.

Sure, some people might go through all the trouble of using a magnetic pickup, but... meh. Eventually, I'll build one if I get bored, and maby rent it out... but even without it, I still think this method is more accurate than the pulse method, due to differences in when the fuel actually goes boom.

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Old

Sep 21, 2013 | 10:03 AM

#10

Twilight Fenrir

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From: Iron, MN

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macrobb

I don't know, I didn't have any trouble. I used an ancient Snap On digital timing light with tach, and lined it up with the /top edge/ of the harmonic balancer plate thing, the one you'd put a magnetic pickup in. I adjusted things to 27 degrees on the timing light @ 2000 RPM, and that seems perfect for an IDI.
Possibly misread the book, but it sounded like I needed to add 20 deg of offset, and I took that to mean subtract 20 degrees from my reading and that's how many degrees I'm at.
I checked a truck which looked to be factory tuned, and it showed me 26 degrees, so I'm in the right ballpark I think.

Even if nothing else, it's a consistent reference point; it allows you to accurately move it. I found out that 28 is on the advanced side, 26 on the retarded side of things.

Sure, some people might go through all the trouble of using a magnetic pickup, but... meh. Eventually, I'll build one if I get bored, and maby rent it out... but even without it, I still think this method is more accurate than the pulse method, due to differences in when the fuel actually goes boom.

I read somewhere about needing to add 20 degrees offset with this setup... I've never used an advanced timing light, I've always just had a plain old antique one... But, the 'advance' feature acts sort of like a delay, right? So, if you set the timing light for 20 degrees ahead, then it should be flashing right at the time for normal timing, right?

Wait... re-reading the original post now I'm confused X_X Isn't there an indicator on the plate, like a normal gasser, that shows the degrees? I see the plate you're talking about, but I haven't cleaned it up...

Also.... how do you get your engine to stay at 2,000 rpms? o.O I've never understood how that's supposed to work...

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Old

Sep 21, 2013 | 04:58 PM

#11

Dieselamour

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From: Virginia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twilight Fenrir

"......Also.... how do you get your engine to stay at 2,000 rpms? o.O I've never understood how that's supposed to work...

There is a youtube video in the thread I linked to. The guy uses a turn buckle with the eyelets opened up to form hooks. This same guy uses another or the same turnbuckle with one eyelet opened up to make a hook. This second turn buckle holds the IP while he loosens the bolts to adjust the timing. He uses a combination wrench with the open end on the square part of the top of the IP and one hook in the box side. Then he takes the other end of the turn buckles hook and puts that on the fuel filter's fitting. Supposedly this is to keep the pump from moving when it is loosened.

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Last edited by Dieselamour; Sep 21, 2013 at 05:03 PM. Reason: added links

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Old

Sep 21, 2013 | 06:08 PM

#12

akamacgyver

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From: Denver, CO

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To be entirely clear, the turnbuckle for the pump adjustments is to be used with the motor off. DO NOT EVER MAKE PUMP ADJUSTMENTS WITH THE MOTOR RUNNING! It will ruin your pump. They do work great though. I think the pump one is a 6" and the rpm one is a 3".

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Old

Sep 21, 2013 | 09:56 PM

#13

Twilight Fenrir

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From: Iron, MN

Ah, yes, I had those videos bookmarked from previous research... forgot about that ^^;

Okay, I sat and pondered it a bit, and I think I get it...

So, if you use the lummy method, you set the timing you want on your light, plus 20*, and line it up with the TOP of the timing plate... which, I'm assuming by top you mean the drivers side end, as it's higher than the passenger side end.

So, if I wanted to set it at 8 degrees, I set the light to 28, and try to get the timing mark on the harmonic balancer to line up with the top edge of the plate. If that doesn't prove to be ideal, and I want to adjust it a degree, I'd set the light to 27 or 29, and again try to line it up with the upper edge of the plate...

Is that about right? Sounds pretty straight forward if so, and I'll just go ahead and save $150 with the minor hassle of pulling a glowplug if that's the case...

Thanks for all the helpful information to everyone too

It never ceases to surprise me how many little things are different between a gasser and a diesel...

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Old

Sep 22, 2013 | 05:15 AM

#14

Dieselamour

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From: Virginia

Quote:

Originally Posted by akamacgyver

To be entirely clear, the turnbuckle for the pump adjustments is to be used with the motor off. DO NOT EVER MAKE PUMP ADJUSTMENTS WITH THE MOTOR RUNNING! It will ruin your pump. They do work great though. I think the pump one is a 6" and the rpm one is a 3".

Yes, Engine OFF. The turn buckle is a great idea. I think I would find a tighter fitting wrench and permanently fix the turn buckle tight to the wrench's box end to limit any possible movement, as what was shown in the video. Maybe a peen the open end some or JB-weld the size smaller so it can be filed and fit like a glove without marring the IP's surface.

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Old

Sep 22, 2013 | 05:25 AM

#15

Dieselamour

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From: Virginia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twilight Fenrir

Ah, yes, I had those videos bookmarked from previous research... forgot about that ^^;

Okay, I sat and pondered it a bit, and I think I get it...

So, if you use the lummy method, you set the timing you want on your light, plus 20*, and line it up with the TOP of the timing plate... which, I'm assuming by top you mean the drivers side end, as it's higher than the passenger side end.

So, if I wanted to set it at 8 degrees, I set the light to 28, and try to get the timing mark on the harmonic balancer to line up with the top edge of the plate. If that doesn't prove to be ideal, and I want to adjust it a degree, I'd set the light to 27 or 29, and again try to line it up with the upper edge of the plate...

Is that about right? Sounds pretty straight forward if so, and I'll just go ahead and save $150 with the minor hassle of pulling a glowplug if that's the case...

Thanks for all the helpful information to everyone too

It never ceases to surprise me how many little things are different between a gasser and a diesel...

When I removed my IP and resealed it I just put the timing back to where the previous setting was, which I marked.

I'm getting 18.8 mpg on the highway but she is a pig on hills ***SO*** now that I have been reading some on the dangers of ear timing diesels I think that I am going to spring for the newer model < $200. Even with the illuminating type it seems like some guess work and I don't know if my timing is correct, so it seems like too much to risk.

Does the 1986 6.9 take the 1/4" line clamp or the 6 or 6.5mm line clamp?

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